On Mon, Apr 29, 2019, at 21:08, [email protected] wrote: > > > On Monday, April 29, 2019 at 8:41:18 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 26 Apr 2019, at 22:25, [email protected] wrote: >>> >>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Friday, April 26, 2019 at 2:04:31 AM UTC-5, Cosmin Visan wrote: >>>>>>> Consciousness. Red is red. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Friday, 26 April 2019 10:03:26 UTC+3, [email protected] wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> What specific ontological entity or entities of any science in 2019 >>>>>>>> does one claim as* final* - i.e., *that *ontology is the "true" one? >>>>>>> >>> >>> On Friday, April 26, 2019 at 11:25:15 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 26 Apr 2019, at 10:09, [email protected] wrote: >>>>> >>>>> That is a good point. >>>>> >>>>> And that is the basic framework of Strawsonian panpsychism: >>>>> >>>>> *Consciousness Isn’t a Mystery. It’s Matter.* >>>>> - >>>>> https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/16/opinion/consciousness-isnt-a-mystery-its-matter.html >>>> >>>> >>>> Yes, the believer in Ontological Matter can get that crazy. When they >>>> don’t eliminate consciousness, they identify it with matter, but then I >>>> have no more any idea what they mean by consciousness, nor matter. It like >>>> saying that apple are oranges, or that dogs are cats, or that music are >>>> black spot. >>>> >>>> To be sure, I have not read the text in the link, but I doubt it could >>>> clarify anything like that. Matter and consciousness are typically very >>>> different things. Consciousness is ascribed to person, matter is ascribed >>>> to their (local) bodies. Both exist phenomenologically, with digital >>>> mechanism, but one is far more general than the other, and once >>>> (consciousness) is responsible from creating, in some sense, the other >>>> (matter). >>>> >>>> Consciousness needs only small numbers, matter needs the full invariance >>>> of consciousness on all “similar enough” computations, and use infinities >>>> (phenomenologically, as the ontology has not infinities). Matter obeys to >>>> the laws of physics, but consciousness obeys to the laws of mind (the laws >>>> of Boole and the laws of Boolos, as I sum up sometimes, that is classical >>>> logic + the laws of self-reference). >>>> >>>> Bruno >>> >>> >>> Matter - in the panpsychist view - obeys "the laws of physics", but those >>> "laws" are are an incomplete theory of matter. >>> >>> There is a physical and psychical aspect to any complete theory of matter - >>> in the panpsychist view. >>> >>> There may be an immaterialist science, and the pro-"matter" people may have >>> some 'splainin' to do, but in the panpsychist context, matter is both >>> physical and psychical. >> >> The problem with panpsychism, is in “pan”, not in psychisme. Then I have no >> clue what it could mean that matter is psychical. With mechanism, matter is >> dreamed, never experienced. There is no matter per se.It cannot be >> psychical, because it cannot be, at all. >> >> Bruno >> > > Of > > "matter is dreamed" > > or "matter [*the only basic substance**] possesses psychical properties" > > the second seems more like science.
Yes, especially if you wear a white coat and hold a test tube with some bubbling green liquid while saying it. Telmo. > > * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panpsychism#Physicalism_and_materialism > > @philipthrift > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
