On 5/12/2019 11:26 AM, Philip Thrift wrote:
On Sunday, May 12, 2019 at 12:57:17 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote:
On 5/12/2019 1:35 AM, Philip Thrift wrote:
On Saturday, May 11, 2019 at 9:21:45 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote:
On 5/11/2019 6:58 PM, Philip Thrift wrote:
On Saturday, May 11, 2019 at 6:52:36 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote:
On 5/11/2019 4:16 PM, Philip Thrift wrote:
On Saturday, May 11, 2019 at 6:06:31 PM UTC-5, Brent
wrote:
On 5/11/2019 3:45 PM, Philip Thrift wrote:
On Saturday, May 11, 2019 at 3:31:19 PM UTC-5,
Cosmin Visan wrote:
How do AI fanboys explain telepathy and
precognition ? In the case of consciousness <>
AI, telepathy and precognition are more easily
explainable, in the sense that consciousness
being non-local, it can indeed create cases in
which spatially and temporally separated
consciousness can communicate. But in the case
of local AIs, how can such phenomena have any
chance of being explained ?
I doubt telepathy, but I do have a low-level
precognition thought experiment handy:
In the typical EPR experiment setup, particle A
goes one way, and particle B goes another way, to
detector-A and detector-B respectively.
Now particles A and B are "entangled"
(quantum-mechanically) , so that detector-B
settings will stochastically influence what
detector-A detects (and vice versa).
Now suppose detector-A is placed in a person's
brain (not far away) in such a way that particle A
(via detector-A) influences a neuron or two, but
detector-B is light years (traveling distance)
away. Can detector-B settings made years in the
future influence what the person's neurons do in
the present?
Why make it impossible to perform by placing B far
away? The only relevant condition is whether Bob's
setting was made space-like or time-like relative
to Alice's. And that kind of experiment has been
done. There is correlation per QM.
Brent
Huh? I claimed it was possible to perform. Not
impossible to perform.
You claim we can send Bob light years away to perform
this experiment?? How?
And why bother since Aspect has already done it with Bob
selecting his setting space-like relative to Alice's?
The case in which Bob's setting is done in Alice's
future light cone has been done too, but isn't very
interesting since Alice could then influence Bob's
setting. Are you testing whether Alice's neurons will
agree with Alice's instruments? I don't see what you're
getting at?
Brent
No. Bob could be someone on another planet (Bob will in the
future of that other planet).
Or the idea already discussed, that the B particle could go
out into space and heavy masses could bend its path around
and it returns to Earth. In the future.
In any case, Bob is someone in the future, not the present.
So suppose Alice, in her lab makes a setting and measures her
entangled particle. The she walks down the hall to Bob's
lab and says, "Ok, Bob you are in the future of my setting
and measurements. Go ahead and do your thing." What
difference is there between that and Bob is on another
planet? He's in Alice's future light cone.
Brent
/The EPR thought experiment, performed with electron–positron
pairs. A source (center) sends particles toward two observers,
electrons to Alice (left) and positrons to Bob (right), who can
perform spin measurements./
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EPR_paradox#Measurements_on_an_entangled_state
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EPR_paradox#Measurements_on_an_entangled_state>
The A particle travels 10 feet to the A-detector (Alice).
The B particle travels 2.939e+14 miles* (50 light years) to the
B-detector (Bob).
Bob could be on another planet. Or on Earth, if the B particle
path could be bent around somehow via GR.
Bob may be 30 years old. He hasn't yet been born when Alice gets
the A particle.
But my question is what is being tested in the experiment that
isn't tested when Bob is just down the hall. Are you concerned
that the entanglement will "get old" as the photon travels 50
light years (even though it's proper time lapse is zero)?
Brent
* calculation via Google
But with the phenomenon of "quantum entanglement" it occurs to me
that some /weak/ form of both telepathy and precognition could occur:
*Stabilized entanglement of massive mechanical oscillators*
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-018-0038-x
<https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-018-0038-x>
But how weak, TBD.
@philipthrift
I think I see what you mean.
If Alice is 10 feet away to the west and Bob is 100 feet away to the
east, then the A particle gets to Alice just a little faster than the
B particle gets to Bob (assuming the two particles are traveling at
the same speed).
So Alice reacts to Bob-in-the-future -- but in this case it's a very
short time interval look-ahead!
And that experiment has been done:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed-choice_quantum_eraser
Brent
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