On Friday, September 13, 2019 at 6:27:32 PM UTC-5, Bruce wrote: > > On Sat, Sep 14, 2019 at 8:26 AM Stathis Papaioannou <[email protected] > <javascript:>> wrote: > >> On Sat, 14 Sep 2019 at 08:08, John Clark <[email protected] >> <javascript:>> wrote: >> >>> On Thu, Sep 12, 2019 at 10:26 PM Alan Grayson <[email protected] >>> <javascript:>> wrote: >>> >>> >>>> *> Carroll also believes that IF the universe is infinite, then there >>>> must exist exact copies of universes and ourselves. This is frequently >>>> claimed by the MWI true believers, but never, AFAICT, proven, or even >>>> plausibly argued. What's the argument for such a claim?* >>>> >>> >>> Of course it's been proven! It's simple math, there are only a finite >>> number of ways the atoms in your body, or even the entire OBSERVABLE >>> universe, can be arranged so obviously if the entire universe is infinite >>> then there is going to have to be copies, an infinite number of them in >>> fact. Max Tegmark has even calculated how far you'd have to go to see >>> such a thing. >>> >>> Your closest identical copy is 10^12 light years away. About 10^76 light >>> years away there is a sphere of radius 100 light-years identical to the one >>> centered here, so everything we see here during the next century will be >>> identical to those of our counterparts over there. And 10^102 light years >>> away the is a exact copy of our entire observable universe. And all this is >>> true regardless of if the Many Worlds Interpretation of Quantum Mechanics >>> is correct or not, it only depends on the universe being spatially infinite. >>> >> >> Assuming that the structure of the universe is uniform. >> > > The trouble with all such arguments is that they miss the fact that our > initial conditions might have been very special, of measure zero. In an > infinite universe there are certainly many copies of individual universes, > but they might well all be copies of completely boring lifeless universes. > > Bruce >
As I indicate a few posts above early today, there are some questions about this. Let us consider this within the level II multiverse, and even if people do not "believe," a term I dislike using here, that just go along with the argument. The inflationary manifold has a huge vacuum energy that is unstable. This results in these "Swiss cheese" bubbles of lower energy that roll off the inflationary domain and form a pocket that has a boundary. To my mind that boundary poses a lot of questions. This will contain quantum field information. Does this quantum information go into popping this pocket off so it is a topologically complete spacetime? In other words this boundary information is transferred into topological information, maybe as entanglements etc. Then if so is this topologically complete space a sphere S^3 or is it R^3, where in a projective geometric setting that topological information is sent to "infinity" or on RP^3. If this is sphere then things are finite and this level I multiverse can't be complete. If this sphere is small enough it essentially does not exist. It it is R^3, or what I really think is interesting is Poincare's dodechedron space, then we can have copies and level I multiverse. LC -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/48ead828-e99d-4148-b413-73ff1f7ec369%40googlegroups.com.
