I On Thu, 19 Sep 2019 at 10:17, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < [email protected]> wrote:
> > > On 9/18/2019 3:22 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > > > > On Thu, 19 Sep 2019 at 08:16, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> >> >> On 9/18/2019 2:58 PM, John Clark wrote: >> >> On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 4:25 PM 'Brent Meeker' < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >> *> **Haven't you ever awoken from surgery? AG * >>> >>> *>> Yes, and I think I was just the same as before and so does everyone >>> else. But maybe I am fundamentally different. How would I know?* >>> >>> >>> You'd ask people who knew you well. >>> >> >> And if you did that you would hear them make noises with their mouth, but >> whatever consciousness is it certainly isn't those mouth noises. If your >> lucky you may be able to detect a pattern in those noises that would >> indicate intelligence, but you would have to make an additional assumption >> to conclude that also indicated consciousness, namely that consciousness is >> an inevitable byproduct of intelligence. In the real world everybody makes >> that assumption a thousand times a day because the alternative is >> solipsism. >> >> >> They question was whether you could find out you were fundamentally >> different after an operation. Not whether or not your friends were >> conscious. Saibal said "No." apparently based only on the fact that he >> couldn't trust introspection. But in that would equally imply he couldn't >> tell whether he fundamentally changed from day to day, or minute to minute. >> Of course nothing can provide certainty, but your friends saying you act >> differently or you don't would be good evidence. It's the same level of >> evidence for thinking one another consciousness, but it's broader since you >> might be different in some way you were not conscious of. >> > > And if you were different in some way you were not conscious of, it > wouldn’t matter. > > > How do you figure that? Suppose you're a murderous psychopath after the > operation. Just because YOU don't remember not being a murderous > psychopath before, it may still matter. > In that case there would be objective evidence of a change and you would be conscious of this evidence. But if neither you nor anyone else noticed a change, it wouldn’t matter. For example, if my colour qualia changed every day, but there was no objective difference and I didn’t notice any difference, it wouldn’t matter. It could be argued that such a change is not really a change at all. > -- Stathis Papaioannou -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAH%3D2ypXvvoGn%3DYvoChSL9B0s3-_HEYBnVvGw1%2BWDFH4s%2B%3D%2BPsg%40mail.gmail.com.
