> On 19 Sep 2019, at 00:16, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > On 9/18/2019 2:58 PM, John Clark wrote: >> On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 4:25 PM 'Brent Meeker' >> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> >> wrote: >> >> > Haven't you ever awoken from surgery? AG >> >> >> Yes, and I think I was just the same as before and so does everyone else. >> >> But maybe I am fundamentally different. How would I know? >> >> >>> You'd ask people who knew you well. >> >> And if you did that you would hear them make noises with their mouth, but >> whatever consciousness is it certainly isn't those mouth noises. If your >> lucky you may be able to detect a pattern in those noises that would >> indicate intelligence, but you would have to make an additional assumption >> to conclude that also indicated consciousness, namely that consciousness is >> an inevitable byproduct of intelligence. In the real world everybody makes >> that assumption a thousand times a day because the alternative >> is solipsism. > > They question was whether you could find out you were fundamentally different > after an operation. Not whether or not your friends were conscious. Saibal > said "No." apparently based only on the fact that he couldn't trust > introspection. But in that would equally imply he couldn't tell whether he > fundamentally changed from day to day, or minute to minute. Of course nothing > can provide certainty, but your friends saying you act differently or you > don't would be good evidence. It's the same level of evidence for thinking > one another consciousness, but it's broader since you might be different in > some way you were not conscious of.
That’s right, and the definitions of the “first person” used either in the thought experiment (content of the diary taken by the candidate with him, in the annihilation/copy box) or used in the math (beweisbar(‘p’) & p, []p & p) makes the reasoning on consciousness rigorous and transparent, despite not being able to define it, as long as we agree that we can survive for more than one second in our everyday life. Bruno > > Brent > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/deaa9ce8-6ad4-094f-f861-5bc1e77e29fd%40verizon.net > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/deaa9ce8-6ad4-094f-f861-5bc1e77e29fd%40verizon.net?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/20147F12-1413-4E1D-8A13-F332EB0F89BA%40ulb.ac.be.
