On Thursday, November 7, 2019 at 7:48:15 PM UTC-7, Bruce wrote: > > On Fri, Nov 8, 2019 at 1:42 PM Alan Grayson <[email protected] > <javascript:>> wrote: > >> On Thursday, November 7, 2019 at 6:27:22 PM UTC-7, Bruce wrote: >>> >>> On Fri, Nov 8, 2019 at 12:01 PM Alan Grayson <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> On Thursday, November 7, 2019 at 5:25:56 PM UTC-7, Brent wrote: >>>>> >>>>> On 11/7/2019 4:13 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: >>>>> >>>>> They've sent 2000-atom sized molecules through double slits. >>>>>> >>>>>> What about sending cats? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> You will loss the ability to get the interference, because it is >>>>>> hugely more complex to isolate a cat from the environment, so its alive >>>>>> or >>>>>> dead state will be pass on you unavoidably very quickly. See my >>>>>> explanation to Grayson why any (unknown) interaction of an object in a >>>>>> superposition state makes it logically impossible to remain in a >>>>>> superposition relatively to you. It uses only very elementary algebra. >>>>>> The >>>>>> quantum effect, to be exploited, require perfect isolation, which is >>>>>> impossible for most macroscopic object. But some “macro-superposition” >>>>>> have >>>>>> been obtained with superconducting device. In fact, superconductor is a >>>>>> quantum macroscopic effect. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Aside from the isolation problems the de Broglie wavelength of a cat >>>>>> is extremely small so to get an interference pattern the slit and slit >>>>>> spacing must be correspondingly small. The C60 experiment was only made >>>>>> possible by the development of the Tablot-Lau interferometer. >>>>>> >>>>>> Brent >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I've made this point before; the decoherence time for a cat is very >>>>> very short, but how does this effect the point Schroedinger wanted to >>>>> make, >>>>> since the cat is in that paradoxical superposition for some short but >>>>> finite duration? AG >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> There is no paradox. It's just some hang up you have that a cat can't >>>>> be dead and alive at the same time. It's as though your physics was >>>>> stuck >>>>> in the time of Aristotle and words were magic so that "Alive implies >>>>> not-dead." was a law of physics instead of an axiom of logic. >>>>> >>>>> In fact a moments thought will tell you that quite aside from quantum >>>>> mechanics there would be no way to identify the moment of death of the >>>>> cat >>>>> to less than a several seconds. It would be simply meaningless to say >>>>> the >>>>> cat was alive at 0913:20 and dead at 0913:21. >>>>> >>>>> Brent >>>>> >>>> >>>> You can imagine a different experiment, without cats, with the same >>>> paradoxical result. The point of Schroedinger's thought experiment was to >>>> demonstate tHE title of this thread; that there's something wrong with the >>>> prevailing interpretation of superposition. In your view I am hung up with >>>> Aristotle? In my view, you're seduced by some quantum nonsense. AG >>>> >>> >>> We have moved on somewhat in the 80-plus years since Schrodinger's >>> thought experiment. The "prevailing view" is now different from his, so >>> what he thought he had demonstrated is no longer particularly relevant. >>> >>> Bruce >>> >> >> Fair enough. So what is the "prevailing view" now? Isn't it (in the >> context of Brent's last post) that a radioactive atom can be simultaneously >> decayed and undecayed? How is this different from the days of Schroedinger? >> AG >> > > Decoherence is rapid. Schrodinger did not know about this. But the SWE > predicts momentary superpositions -- at least until the environment > enforces the preferred basis. > > Bruce > 7:39 PM (1 hour ago)
What's wrong with the interpretation that the radioactive atom is either decayed OR undecayed with probabilities calculated by Born's Rule? AG -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/e273b33f-af8a-44c9-b2e5-db4b2eb22316%40googlegroups.com.
