On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 11:12:36 AM UTC-7, Brent wrote: > > > > On 1/13/2020 2:10 AM, Alan Grayson wrote: > > The model says that a subset of the universe starts small and gets bigger. >>>>> This is not inconsistent with the whole universe starting and remaining >>>>> infinite in spatial extent. >>>>> -- >>>>> Stathis Papaioannou >>>>> >>>> >>>> *I thought I made that clear; what I am calling "the universe" is >>>> precisely the SUBSET you refer to, which starts small and gets bigger. It >>>> is THAT SUBSET which cosmologists claim has infinite spatial extent, based >>>> on measurements. * >>>> >>> > First, a proper subset of an infinite set can also be infinite (in fact > that's one definition of "infinite"). >
*True. AG* > Second, nobody measures an infinite portion of the universe. > *I never made that claim. AG* > We can only measure the curvature of the part we can see. > *I never claimed otherwise. How could we measure what we can't (in some sense) see? Impossible! AG* > Third, it is not clear what is THAT SUBSET to which you refer. > *I'm referring to the observable and non-observable regions. When cosmologists claim the universe is flat, they're referring to these regions and nothing else. It does NOT include the underlying entity from which our bubble emerged. Thus, a subset of a possibly larger totality. AG * > Cosmologists are aware that only an initially infinite subset of space can > be infinite after a finite expansion. > *So, at the instant of the BB, that is"initially", there's a process which creates an infinity of space having zero time duration? How is this different from a singularity? This is where I have a problem. There is no process that can create anything, let alone a spatial infinity, with no time passing. AG* > They refer to a part of the universe that is beyond observation as being > within the "particle horizon" because it consists of the evolved locations > of things which are seen now as they were 14 billion years ago. Those > things are now 49 billion light years away due to the expansion...which is > sometimes referred to as the present diameter of the observable universe. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Particle_horizon > > Brent > > *What you're calling "the whole universe" includes the underlying entity >>>> on which the BB started, and on which measurements CANNOT be made. It >>>> could >>>> be infinite in spatial extent, or is possibly an entity for which the >>>> concept of spatial extent might not exist. AG* >>>> >>> > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/47ffbc4f-e9d5-4b9e-95d4-17f171b72074%40googlegroups.com.
