On 1/25/2020 4:32 PM, Lawrence Crowell wrote:
On Saturday, January 25, 2020 at 6:23:54 AM UTC-6, John Clark wrote:
On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 5:21 PM Bruce Kellett <[email protected]
<javascript:>> wrote:
>> And I've heard a bunch of bad analogies but I still
haven't heard a direct answer to my question:
What is the difference between a "finite" universe that is
expanding and accelerating forever and an infinite
universe that is expanding and accelerating forever?
/> If you don't understand Brent's answer in terms of the
range of values in coordinate maps, then you will never
understand the difference./
Then I guess I'll never understand the difference.
> A finite universe has a finite range of coordinate values.
NOPE! Brent specifically said"/I'm assuming a continuum spacetime.
So even a 1cm interval takes an infinite *number* of labels/".
Thus even if the universe is not expanding at all and even if it's
only 1cm across a infinite number of labels with a infinite rage
of coordinate values printed on them would be needed.
Nope. Space and spacetime are an epiphenomenology. They are mental
perceptual models that result from large N-entanglements of quantum
states. There are no infinite sets of points and labels, that would in
fact be uncountably infinite. These things only exist in our
mathematical representations or axiomatic systems. Now, what
information we can get about space from the IR domain of energy at
extreme distances, such as with burstars etc,, is the representation
of what we call space being smooth fits the data. This does not mean
that fundamentally there is an actual smooth continuum of space.
I don't disagree, but you're getting further and further from saying
what it means for spacetime to be finite versus infinite. Since it's
our mathematical model, that should have a simple mathematical answer.
Brent
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