On Sunday, April 26, 2020 at 6:39:15 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: > > > > On 4/26/2020 3:22 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Sunday, April 26, 2020 at 1:46:59 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 4/26/2020 9:24 AM, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >> >> On Sunday, April 26, 2020 at 9:48:45 AM UTC-6, John Clark wrote: >>> >>> On Sat, Apr 25, 2020 at 12:49 PM Alan Grayson <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>> *> How does QM tell us that conservation of energy can be violated for >>>> brief durations? If you apply the time-energy form of the UP for your >>>> proof, please state the context of your proof, that is, exactly what do E >>>> and t stand for.* >>> >>> >>> The shorter the time (t) a system is under observation the larger the >>> amount of energy (E) could pop into existence from nothing without direct >>> detection, enough energy to create virtual particles. And you can calculate >>> how large the indirect effects these virtual particles would have on the >>> system. >>> >> >> As I understand the UP, it's a statistical statement about an ensemble of >> observations, say for position and momentum of identical particles. It says >> nothing about the result of events, say for the position and momentum of a >> single particle or event. Doing some arithmetic to get the time-energy form >> of the UP does not change this reality. As a result, your description of >> what happens to a single particle, virtual or not, is not intelligible. >> Please try again. AG >> >> >> The UP doesn't apply to virtual particles because it refers to the result >> of conjugate measurement (projection) operators. You can't measure virtual >> particles. >> >> Brent >> > > In its usual form, does the UP allow us to measure position and momentum > *simultaneously*, or must we measure each variable independently (for an > ensemble of identical particles, of course)? What is proper interpretation > of the time/energy form of the principle in statistical terms? TIA, AG > > > You can measure them simultaneously; but when you repeat the pair of > measurements on many identically prepared particles you find that there is > a scatter in the position and a scatter in the momentum such that the HUP > is satisfied. > > Brent >
Can you give an example of the ensembles used in applying the time-energy form of the UP? TIA, AG -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/242de512-d87b-4f1d-a631-e12eca8db6e6%40googlegroups.com.
