On Thursday, April 30, 2020 at 6:09:48 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 28 Apr 2020, at 16:50, Lawrence Crowell <[email protected] > <javascript:>> wrote: > > The Tao has features parallel to the quantum vacuum, and with what I am > working with entanglement and gauge theory I think energy and entanglement > form a wholeness that is similar to the "Qi.” > > > I am skeptical. Some analogies are possible, but with mechanism, energy > and entanglement comes from the universal machine modes of self-reference, > in a manner provably equivalent to Plotinus, once we use the lexicon > > The One = Arithmetical truth > The Noùs = provability > The soul = conjunction of provability with truth > Intelligible Matter = conjunction of provability with consistency (= > physics, quanta) > Sensible Matter = conjunction of provability, consistency and truth (= > physics, qualia). > > Gödel and Löb, and Solovay theorem makes this technically transparent, and > we get an intuitionist logic for the “knower” (the soul) and quantum logic > for Matter, and a sort of quantum intuitionist logic for the sensible > realm. > > > This is where I have big departures. I tend not to see these sorts of mystical connections with mathematics. I can see some parallels with things, but I don't see mathematical proofs as somehow soulness.
LC > > > With these at least there is no Orwellian terror being in the sky we have > to fall to our knees before. > > > That idea does not belong to theology, but to dogmatic pseudo-theology > invented by Tyran to make people obeying to them. > > They have used science as well, but it is easier to use the fundamental > science, although in the USSR they have used biology for the same purpose. > Of course they got “fake biology”. Similarly, when theology brings dogma, > it is no more science, and should not even be considered at all (except in > sociology of “pseudo”-religion). > > > > > If we humans were really the intelligent life form we pretend to be we > would have gotten rid of the monotheistic beliefs at least a century ago. > > > > If the theology was not have been stolen by politics, we would have > discovered the universal machine before 1000, and quantum physics before > the 12th centenary, I think this is plausible., and we would already been > on Mars, and there would be no covid-19 (or no so bad immune reaction to > it, as we would not have repeated the mistake of bringing health in the > hand of the politics, a toy version of the 529 big error). > > Read Plotinus, or Proclus, or study directly the G/G* theology of the > universal machine. Put the bible on your shell in such a way you forget its > existence, as this is to theology what the horoscope is to astrophysics. > > The problem of those who separated religion/theology from science is that > they make science into a sort of religion, and they believe things like > “scientist knows that there is physical universe” which is a nonsense. Many > people claiming that they have no religion today believes without knowing > that they are just espousing Aristotle Theology: the belief that God is > basically the physical reality. But there are no evidence at all for this. > It is a confusion between evidence for laws about measurable numbers > relation, and evidence for doing a physical ontological commitment. It is a > confusion between physics and metaphysics. > > Bruno > > > > > > <Qi.png> > > > LC > > >> >> >> >> Religion claims to have the ultimate truth, or THE TRUTH, >> >> >> >> Only when a tyran steal the domain to those who can remain serious and >> modest on the complex foundational issues. >> >> Dont confuse god, the object of theological study, and god, the object of >> naïve popular fairy tales, especially when it is mixed with state and >> politics. (The genuine blasphemy). >> >> Yes, I know that we have to backtrack about 1500 years to find serious >> studies, but if you study the history of religion, you can understand that >> serious theologian have continue to exist, although usually hiding their >> theories, or presenting them in a way so that they are not immediately send >> at stake. >> >> >> >> >> and we are supposed to wait patiently for a great day of revelation. >> >> >> >> Religion has something to do with personal experience, which are usually >> forbidden once the religion is stolen by politics, let us say. >> >> >> >> >> >> For most of us this will come after death, where if we have done all the >> right things, according to various scriptures, >> >> >> Of course in science there is no scripture, except papers and treatises. >> >> >> >> we will come to know the ultimate Truth and live in eternal bliss. >> >> >> Of course those terms must be defined before we conclude anything, and >> such a conclusion would only be conditional on some theory. For example, if >> we assume mechanism, we cannot assume consistently materialism. (That is >> not entirely obvious, but I got this in the 1970s, at a time where most >> people told me that this was not original, and indeed that was understood >> by the greeks already). >> >> >> >> >> For those who are errant they get to spend eternity in a pit of endless >> fire where they suffer until the end of time --- but somehow this God still >> loves us. >> >> >> >> That god is omniscient and omnipotent, which is logically impossible. >> Since St-Thomas, even the (educated) christians does not take any of this >> literally. I am aware that American Evangelist does, or at least fall they >> do, but apparently it is used only for making the people offering planes >> and money to the boss. The con-artistry is just obvious. >> >> You can use such argument to defeat the literalist. Scared-text >> literalism is only a tool for propagating atheism. >> >> >> >> >> I don't know about anyone else, but I call this a big hustle. These >> religions were schemes concocted by various religious and political con-men >> as a way people could be controlled and society choreographed according to >> the wishes of an ecclesiastical class. >> >> >> >> Absolutely. That is why I insist that theology comes back at the academy, >> where doubts, critics, alternate theories, and research are encouraged. >> >> >> >> Both Christianity and Islam suffer from this problem, they are huge >> social-psychological cons played against people, and where these schemes >> have a lot of staying power. They are sorts of neural-brain memes that >> lodges themselves in minds and are difficult to remove. >> >> >> >> Like all propaganda. It is to theology what astrology is to astronomy. >> >> >> >> >> I read a translation of the Koran after 9/11. I would say my general >> comment is that if this were first published now, with crisp new copies >> available at bookstores and Amazon, the reviewers would be calling it the >> screed of a complete lunatic. >> >> >> >> What is lunatic is to read such text like if there were scientific >> attempt to understand things. Before Al Ghazali, many muslims were quite >> open to this, and that is why they decide to come back to the greeks and >> translated their text, leading to science, but they will not benefit from >> it, as the dark mixing with power will come back and prevail. >> >> >> >> >> >> The Mecca Koran, which is thought to have been written when Muhammed was >> in Mecca with his few followers, is relatively inoffensive and reads a bit >> like Psalms or Proverbs. The second Medina Koran was allegedly written >> after they got their butts kicked out of Mecca, and this part is pure >> insanity. >> >> >> OK. >> >> >> >> We really should be done with these silly things. >> >> >> It is easy. Let us stop claim that science has solved the ontological >> problem, like materialist do (believer in primary mater). >> >> >> >> >> These are based on mythic narratives concerning ideas from the ancient >> world. >> >> >> That is not entirely true. Hypatia taught mathematics and theology in >> Alexandria, still around 300/400. But we can see the radicals taking >> position, and she will be murdered by them. >> >> You just cannot compare Plotinus and Proclus to the reading of any >> sacred-fairy tales book. Those scared text are honorable witnessing of the >> past, but no-one would claim they even address the problem. >> >> >> >> >> They may have made sense then, but really some education and thought >> should indicate how utterly ineffective monotheist religion is as telling >> us anything really meaningful or useful. >> >> >> Monotheism is the religion view of monism. At least Einstein was aware of >> that, and explained that without it, he would not even have searched for a >> his general relativity theory. >> >> Monotheism is the grandmother of the theory of of everything, or of the >> insight we should unify our knowledge in a coherent way. The theism aspect >> is in the modesty, which enforces a constant listening to a ll arguments, >> even the most critical, especially the most critical (unless refuted of >> course). >> >> >> >> >> It is a load of nonsense. We do not sit with slack jaw waiting for some >> great Santa Claus or fairy godmother to come and reveal ALL to us. Instead >> we think, observe, measure, rethink and … , repeat, in order to know what >> is truthful within the limits and tentative certitude of science. >> >> >> There is no certitude in science. Just hypotheses/theories and degrees of >> plausibility. It does not matter so much in applied natural science, but it >> matters a lot in applied fundamental science, notably by understanding that >> in religion only the con men claims some truth. >> >> By leaving theology in the fairy tale literature, we give power to the >> tyran and to argument of authority in religion, but also we make science >> looking like if it was an alternative to religion, that is, we make science >> itself into a pseudo-religion. >> >> That separates eventually the whole human science from exact science, and >> that makes them both inhuman and inexact. >> >> The problem is not God. The problem is that some people conclude that God >> does not exist when they find a contradiction in some theory of God. That >> would be like a scientists along that Earth does not exist, because the >> idea of infinitely many turtles does not make sense. >> >> In science we very rarely abandon a concept. We just improve it through >> new theory. >> >> I the greek theology, the starting God was the natural numbers, then the >> world of ideas, and then Aristotle added a physical primary universe. >> Today, se know or should know that such a primary physical universe is >> contradicted by Mechanism (even with just the amount of mechanism >> necessitate to make sense of Darwin). >> Here the problem is that those who claim to not have a religion appears >> to believe in Aristotle theology, the belief in a primary physical >> universe. This, as I have explained here, is just not working at all, >> unless you eliminate consciousness from the picture. >> >> Unfortunately, there are still many people who are confusing the strong >> evidences for the physical laws with evidences for a primary physical >> universe, or for physicalism. That’s just wrong. That confuses physics and >> metaphysics. That is Aristotle act of faith in his metaphysics, and a sort >> of anti-platonic provocation, and misunderstanding. Of course people love >> it, as they love ontological commitments, as it seems reassuring I guess, >> but that is the kind of pseudo-religious wishful thinking that is not >> tolerated when we work with the scientific attitude. >> >> We will leave the Middle-Age when theology is back, probably as an option >> in advanced mathematical logic and computer science (even non-mechanist >> position can be get more precise ny making precise the digital mechanist >> position. We know that the modal logic G and G* remains sound, but some can >> lose completeness, like “being true in all *transitive* models of ZF”. >> (Being true in *all* models of ZF is just provability for which G and G* >> are complete in their respective roles). >> >> Bruno >> >> >> >> >> >> LC >> >> >>> > He didn’t create this world without purpose, >>> >>> >>> So let us search the purpose, and try theories. The notion of purpose is >>> not an easy notion. >>> >>> >>> >>> > I’m sure there is a greater purpose to our eternal life! >>> >>> >>> So let us do the research work, as this is not obvious, although a >>> pleasant idea (but that is reason to be careful on this, especially when we >>> are still on the terrestrial plane, where modesty is not so much an >>> option). >>> >>> When you assume a greater purpose you need to take into account that >>> some people will borrow an ersatz greater purpose for terrestrial use, and >>> that this can eventually hide for long the genuine higher purpose of the >>> higher self. The machine already understand that some (religious) truth go >>> only without saying. >>> >>> Those who trust the great Goddess leaves the advertising to Her.The >>> genuine mystic stays mute, or propose some theory and reason conditionally. >>> >>> Bruno >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> > >>> > -- >>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> > To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/DEEC3CCB-0CE7-45F9-9AED-75285CFD90E4%40gmail.com. >>> >>> >>> > <image0.jpeg> >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> >> On 23-Apr-2020, at 6:05 AM, [email protected] wrote: >>> >> >>> >> So, if you have pleased, the All-Mighty, and are ushered in to Janah, >>> and you are given permission, what would you do for your first year there? >>> > >>> > -- >>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> > To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/DEEC3CCB-0CE7-45F9-9AED-75285CFD90E4%40gmail.com. >>> >>> >>> >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/89cbc25a-b75e-4c9f-8600-343a09d8e0af%40googlegroups.com >> >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/89cbc25a-b75e-4c9f-8600-343a09d8e0af%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> >> >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] <javascript:>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/8db5b9f8-00e2-459d-b60d-d47702f76c3c%40googlegroups.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/8db5b9f8-00e2-459d-b60d-d47702f76c3c%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > <Qi.png> > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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