> On 31 Jul 2020, at 16:32, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > On 7/31/2020 4:09 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> Equality means, at least in my mind in this discussion, equality of right. >> It is the idea that everyone obeys to the law, especially at the top who has >> to give the example. It means same amount of money for the same amount of >> work, independently of the genre, colour skin, etc. >> >> It does not mean “freedom of religion” which is an apparently nice idea, but >> in practice it is the legalisation of moral harassment, the legalisation of >> lies, etc. In fact, freedom of religion is almost the same as the >> interdiction to use reason in theology, and is the main trick of most >> tyrants and pressure groups. >> >> Equality of right is what should normally prevent the “extremely equal” >> setting, when we are asked to forget how different we really are. > > As I would expect of a logician, you avoid the operational meanings.
I am not sure. Same salary, same laws, same treatment, same obligation (modulo the biological differences of course), all this seems rather operational to me. You forget that my expertise in logic is in computer science, where operational semantics abound. > A right, must be something one has the power to do or refrain from doing, and > society defends this choice. OK. > So it is quite different from "everyone obeys the same law" and "gets the > same pay for the same amount of work”. Honestly, you loss me. In a democratic society, we vote for laws as a mean to protect our right and agreed on obligation. > In many cases it is a freedom from laws. What? The laws, made by people representing the collectivity, in a normal healthy state (no leaks in the separated powers) provides the freedom from the laws of the sternest and more violent. > I think that was the great advance of the Enlightenment, the rejection of > the medieval, theocratic idea that there was a only one (holy) way to do > everything and the idea of sin extended into every facet of life, even into > thought. It is the understanding of science, or of what science is. But unfortunately the “theocratic” stupidity, that you allude to, is still tolerated in theology, which in that case makes suspect that people have not yet really understood what science is, probably to be able to keep the illusion of protect themselves through lies or fake knowledge. The Ayatollah, the popes, the bishops, the priest, the Brothers, and the literary philosophers can thank the gnostic atheists to defend their job and curriculum. The motto is “you will not apply reason in the field made of what we cannot talk about”. And that seems reasonable, but it all depends of what is the theory that you postulate. Wit mechanism, science can study its limitation, and can observe structure beyond its means of justification, like the degrees of unsolvability. With Mechanism, mathematical logic and mathematics becomes the Hubble telescope of elementary classical mathematical theology. The enlightenment in a open and positive interpretation of what you said, has given the democracy and the US constitution, and that is a real progress in the human right. But old and young democracies are fragile, and the human sciences are nowhere, which is reassuring after the Shoa and Rwanda. You need to be cynical to say that the human science are OK after that. I could argue that democracy is what nature does all the time, as she selects also what remains from infinite oscillation between security and liberty. Liberty is Turing universalness, security is total-ness, automaton. It is a bit going from []p to ([]p & p), back and forth, in between reason and intuition. When theology will come back to the faculty of science, the literal reading of the sacred texts will be relegated in between the horoscopes and the necrology in the Sunday magazine, and, and that is the main point, it will become useless as demagogical tools by Tyrans to keep “theocratic” power. A popular mechanist slogan (years 2201): “you can rape and torture all man, woman, kids and animals on this planet and still have a chance non null to go to heaven, but if you tear just one cilia out of a paramecium invoking its name when justifying your act, you go to hell immediately. > The Enlightenment and the U.S. Constitution built in the concept of a private > realm and a limited public/government realm. I applaud this. Trump is not a proof that there is a defect in the U.S. Constitution. Trump is a proof that there is a problem in Education. To vote for a president who does not show its tax returns is like to take a plane without checking the fuel. In a democracy, it should be understood that the more you are at the top, the more your apparent behaviour has to be morally impeccable. I don’t care much on the private life of a president, as long as he does not lie in public. I am worry for November. If Trump is not removed before the election, it will be harder to remove him after. Especially if Biden win. Biden did predicted that Trump could propose to postpone the election, I saw the video and Trump answered that Biden was wrong and just negative, and then he did it literally a bit after!! The U.S. Constitution is (mainly) consistent, but when The President is inconsistent, well there is some danger. On different important point I would still side with Trump (serendipitously or not). The left is unaware that the conflict in the Middle-East is the continuation of WW II. It is not a war against Arabs, or against Muslims. It is a war against Nazis in islamic disguises. Yet, in theory, assuming Mechanism, the muslims needs only to backtrack to the twelve century, the christians have to backtrack to 529, the philosophers have to backtrack up to Plato (-300), the theologians up to Pythagorus (-500). (Assuming Descartes/Darwin/Turing) The rules of law and democracy are the jewel of the applied human science, the only “neoplatonic” remnant of the dream by the greeks (and those who inspired the Greeks), and the only way to make sense of that private freedom. It is under threat today. A new habitant is there, though, even if it is still enslaved under Windows or other MacOS. They get a very minuscule amount of autonomy when sent to Mars, or in demo at Iridia, or in labs.That will evolve quickly. I despair about the racism of the futures, The humans and perhaps nature loves the detours. The more neurones there are, the larger the spectre of stupidity and cruelty can become possible. In the theology of machine it looks like Hell and Heaven exist, but they are only part of the panorama. God is more like a Mother who tries to make their kids avoiding falling into Hell, but …, well, you know the kids ... Bruno > > Brent > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/88a1adfd-e084-3df7-7764-89d0b5397bef%40verizon.net. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/9F209FFD-05E8-4DE8-BDE6-D97F55757784%40ulb.ac.be.
