Consciousness is those annoying periods between sleep. LC
On Friday, October 16, 2020 at 9:11:19 AM UTC-5 medinuclear wrote: > [email protected] *On Behalf Of *Jason Resch Friday, October > 16, 2020 2:42 AM *Subject:* Re: Stenger on Initial Low Entropy > > [*Philip Benjamin*] > > “Is consciousness continuous or discrete? Maybe it's both, argue > researchers?, asks *Michel Herzong et al. *They refer to the “Zombie > within”. Augustine, the chief architect of Western Civilization, raised the > same question in the 4—th Century. The “Zombie within” has got to be > non-entropic, if it is immortal. That is discussed t in the following post: > > > > [email protected] [email protected] *Subject:* RE: > News: Is consciousness continuous or discrete? Maybe it's both, argue > researchers > > > > [*Michel Herzong, Leila Drili-Daoudi, and Adrien Doerig*]. Trends in > Cognitive Sciences, "All in good time: long-lasting postdictive effects > reveal discrete perception" https://doi.org/10.1016/j.tics.2020.07.001 > > “ Two major theories have fueled a now 1,500 year-long debate started by > Saint Augustine: Is consciousness continuous, where we are conscious at > each single point in time, or is it discrete, where we are conscious only > at certain moments of time? In an Opinion published September 3, in the > journal Trends in Cognitive Sciences, psychophysicists answer this > centuries-old question with a new model, one that combines both continuous > moments and discrete points of time. In psychology, research has focused > less on how long a conscious percept lasts. Rather it has asked whether we > are conscious at all times or only at certain discrete moments of time”. > > *[Philip Benjamin] * > > Herzong’s “*zombie within*”, or Augustine’s “inner man” or > Plato’s “soul” are all ideas based on dualism which is not relevant today > in the light of “dark-matter” and its possible chemistry. Astrophysical > light-matter is mostly H and He, while biophysical light-matter consists of > 92+ elements of the Periodic Table. Similarly, astrophysical dark-matter > may correspond to mostly H and He, while biophysical dark-matter (or bio > dark-matter) may correspond to 92+ elements. Human body is made of > light-matter and its chemistry. It is electric, entropic, and mortal. Human > “self” (or soul) is made of dark-matter and its chemistry. If “Self” is > made of dark-matter via its chemistry, the “Self” is nonelectric, > nonentropic, conscious and immortal. The “Light & Dark” twin bodies are > cocreated at the moment of conception. Sub atomic particles of dark-matter > may be monopoles, axions and/or neutrinos with negligible masses relative > to electrons, but with the same mass ratios as in light-matter atoms. > Chemistry means chemical bonds which are spin-governed subatomic particle > configurations of duets & octets. This leads to ordinary physicality of > light matter with its chemistry and extraordinary physicality of > dark-matter with its chemistry. Dualism is a moot point here. Neither Plato > nor Augustine had the benefits of the knowledge of dark-matter and its > chemistry. However, it is not excusable today for any reasonable physical > scientist to ignore the two different forms of physicality. > > Resonance between the twin bodies is the basis of self-awareness. > Resonance is rudimentary recognition. This involves *natural *frequencies > and therefore will be a continuous process. The non-entropic self is > immortal, but the “Self” itself may be a twin composite, one made of one > kind of dark-matter (the three flavors of neutrinos) and the other of a > different kind (axions and monopoles). The difference by an order of > magnitude across the taxa of biophoton emission rates have been discussed > elsewhere including the publication “Spiritual Body or Physical Spirit”. > The missing bio-mass in the growth and death of organisms (California > worms) in hermetically sealed tubes has bee reported by Amrit Sorli > (Journal of Theoretics Vol.4-2 The Additional Mass of Life By Dott Ing and > Amrit Sorli; https://core.ac.uk/display/21767122). > > > > *Best regards* > > *Philip Benjamin * *CC. *Michel Herzong, > Ph.D., École Polytechnique, Switzerland > > > > > > Notes: Most ancient philosophers, including 4- th Century > Augustine, considered human being as a compound of body and soul. The soul > is both the life-giving element and the center of consciousness, perception > and thought. https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/augustine/ “How can soul > fulfil its task of “governing” the body (cf. De quantitate animae 22) if it > is incorporeal itself? And how are corporeal and psychic aspects related to > each other in phenomena that involve both body and soul, especially if, > like passions and desires, these are morally relevant? These problems are > further complicated by the Platonic axiom that incorporeal entities, being > ontologically prior to corporeal ones, cannot be causally affected by them. > Augustine’s solution is indebted to Plotinus’ strategy of making the > relation of the soul to the bodily affections an essentially cognitive > one”. > > According to Prof. Herzong, “Unconscious processing is continuous > but conscious precepts are restricted to certain short moments of time…. > Change cannot be perceived immediately. It can only be perceived after it > has happened….. It’s the unconscious zombie within us that has excellent > spatial/temporal resolution,” Herzog says. …. The thoughts and surroundings > are unconsciously updated, and your conscious self uses the updates to > see if they make sense. If not, then you change your route. Conscious > processing is overestimated”. > > The dark unconscious processing period is more weighty. One just > believes in being conscious at each moment of time. “Conversely, the idea > of discrete perception , the concept that humans are only conscious at > certain moments in time, does not define the duration of these discrete > moments. > > > > > *http://augnet.org/en/works-of-augustine/his-spiritual-tradition/2238-interiority/* > > <http://augnet.org/en/works-of-augustine/his-spiritual-tradition/2238-interiority/> > > > > > https://www.forbes.com/sites/fernandezelizabeth/2020/09/06/is-consciousness-continuous-like-a-movie-or-discrete-like-a-flipbook/#69052bf53101 > > http://www.peterkreeft.com/topics-more/20_arguments-gods-existence.htm#10 > > > http://www.peterkreeft.com/topics-more/20_arguments-gods-existence.htm#11 > > https://infidels.org/library/modern/andrew_melnyk/physicalism.html > Melnyk, Andrew (2007). A Case for Physicalism about the Human Mind > > > > However, scientists, philosophers, and neuroscientists have debated this > for 1,500 years. St. Augustine, one of the great early philosophers of the > mind, pondered how we could be present in short periods of time, but yet > still perceive motion. Even farther back the Abhidharma school of Buddhism > discussed discrete events of consciousness rather than a continual flow. > > https://scit > echdaily.com/is-consciousness-continuous-or-discrete-scientists-think-its-both/ > > > *https://neurosciencenews.com/consciousn ess-continuous-discrete-16958/* > <https://neurosciencenews.com/consciousn%20ess-continuous-discrete-16958/> > > > > > *https://voegelinview.com/paradox-consciousness-augustines-confessions-voegelinian-reading-part/* > > <https://voegelinview.com/paradox-consciousness-augustines-confessions-voegelinian-reading-part/> > > > > *https://sites.google.com/site/hollysrevisionofreligion/home/religious-ethics/ethical-theory/conscience/augustine-of-hippo-and-his-view-of-the-conscience* > > <https://sites.google.com/site/hollysrevisionofreligion/home/religious-ethics/ethical-theory/conscience/augustine-of-hippo-and-his-view-of-the-conscience> > > > > > *~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~* > > > > *From:* [email protected] <[email protected]> > > *Sent:* Thursday, September 3, 2020 9:23 PM > *To:* Consciousness <[email protected]>; Cognitive NeuroScience < > [email protected]> > *Subject:* [Cognitive Neuroscience Forum] News: Is consciousness > continuous or discrete? Maybe it's both, argue researchers > > > > > > Is consciousness continuous or discrete? Maybe it's both, argue researchers > by Cell Press > > Credit: Pixabay/CC0 Public Domain > > Two major theories have fueled a now 1,500 year-long debate started by > Saint Augustine: Is consciousness continuous, where we are conscious at > each single point in time, or is it discrete, where we are conscious only > at certain moments of time? In an Opinion published September 3 in the > journal Trends in Cognitive Sciences, psychophysicists answer this > centuries-old question with a new model, one that combines both continuous > moments and discrete points of time. > > "Consciousness is basically like a movie. We think we see the world as it > is, there are no gaps, there is nothing in between, but that cannot really > be true," says first author Michael Herzog, a professor at the Ecole > Polytechnique Fédérale de Lausanne (EPFL) in Switzerland. "Change cannot be > perceived immediately. It can only be perceived after it has happened." > > Because of its abstract nature, scientists have struggled to define > conscious and unconscious perception. What we do know is that a person > moves from unconsciousness to consciousness when they wake up in the > morning or awake from anesthesia. Herzog says that most philosophers > subscribe to the idea of continuous conscious perception-because it follows > basic human intuition-"we have the feeling that we're conscious at each > moment of time." > > On the other hand, the less-popular idea of discrete perception, which > pushes the concept that humans are only conscious at certain moments in > time, falls short in that there is no universal duration for how long these > points in time last. > > Herzog and co-authors Leila Drissi-Daoudi and Adrien Doerig take the > benefits of both theories to create a new, two-stage model in which a > discrete conscious percept is preceded by a long-lasting, unconscious > processing period. "You need to process information continuously, but you > cannot perceive it continuously." > > Imagine riding a bike. If you fell and waited every half-second to > respond, there would be no way to catch yourself before hitting the ground. > However, if you pair short conscious moments with longer periods of > unconscious processing where the information is integrated, your mind tells > you what you have perceived, and you catch yourself. > > "It's the zombie within us that drives your bike-an unconscious zombie > that has excellent spatial/temporal resolution," Herzog says. At each > moment, you will not be saying to yourself, "move the bike another 5 feet." > The thoughts and surroundings are unconsciously updated, and your conscious > self uses the updates to see if they make sense. If not, then you change > your route. > > "Conscious processing is overestimated," he says. "You should give more > weight to the dark, unconscious processing period. You just believe that > you are conscious at each moment of time." > > The authors write that their two-stage model not only solves the > 1,500-year-old philosophical problem but gives new freedom to scientists in > different disciplines. "I think it helps people to completely fuel > information processing for different prospects because they don't need to > translate it from when an object is presented directly to consciousness," > Herzog says. "Because we get this extra dimension of time to solve > problems, if people take it seriously and if it is true, that could change > models in neuroscience, psychology, and potentially also in computer > vision." > > Though this two-stage model could add to the consciousness debate, it does > leave unanswered questions such as: How are conscious moments integrated? > What starts unconscious processing? And how do these periods depend on > personality, stress, or disease, such as schizophrenia? "The question for > what consciousness is needed and what can be done without conscious? We > have no idea," says Herzog. > > Explore further > > How the brain produces consciousness in 'time slices' > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > More information: Trends in Cognitive Sciences, Herzong, Drissi-Daoudi, > and Doerig: "All in good time: long-lasting postdictive effects reveal > discrete perception" www.cell.com/trends/cognitive- . > 1364-6613(20)30170-4 , DOI: 10.1016/j.tics.2020.07.001 > Journal information: Trends in Cognitive Sciences > > Provided by Cell Press > > https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-09-consciousness-discrete.html > > Posted by > Robert > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. 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