On Tue, Jul 6, 2021, 8:26 AM Bruce Kellett <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 6, 2021 at 8:56 PM John Clark <[email protected]> wrote: > >> On Sun, Jul 4, 2021 at 10:10 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> It's easy to determine that the quantum computer is intelligent but >>>> as for consciousness, how did you determine that it was not conscious? >>>> For that matter how did you determine that I am conscious? But let's get >>>> out of the consciousness quagmire for a moment so I can ask you a question, >>>> leaving behind the interpretation of the experiment concentrating only on >>>> its results, if it was actually performed as described do you think >>>> interference bands would be on that photographic plate or would there >>>> be no such bands? I would bet money the bands would be there on that >>>> plate even though there's no longer any which way information remaining. >>>> So, what would you put your money on, bands or no bands? >>>> >>> > >>> *I would guess the interference bands would be present exactly because, >>> ex hypothesi, the which-way information was quantum erased.* >>> >> So an intelligent and presumably conscious being once existed that knew >> which slot all the electrons went through, but those interference bands >> still showed up anyway. Don't you find that a little strange? If Many >> Worlds is wrong and that being didn't exist in another world, then where >> did it exist? >> > > > The mistake that you (and Deutsch) are making, John, is to assume that > consciousness causes the collapse of the wave function in CI. This was > never a consensus view among supporters of Bohr. The idea was floated by > Wigner, but was eventually laughed out of court when it degenerated into > silly arguments about whether the consciousness of a mouse could collapse > the wave function, while the consciousness of an ant could not. The whole > idea was seen to be absurd. > > So Deutsch's ridiculous attempt to demonstrate the falsifiability of many > worlds collapses in gales of laughter. > > Bruce > Collapse theories are non-specific about where/when collapse happens between measurement and conscious experience, but in general anyone who subscribes to a collapse theory will point to it happening somewhere in between those two points. So all will hold collapse must happen at least by the time a measurement is consciously experienced. What Deutsch's experiment shows (much like Wigner's friend) is that even a conscious observer experiencing the result of a measurement doesn't cause collapse. This implies a superposition of distinct conscious mind states, yielding "many-minds," even if you don't choose to describe the separate parts of the wave function these minds belong to as: "many-worlds." Jason > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAFxXSLSN5uS3spcbyMc0zXwnci%3DhCx5q%2B7-HbYqrHEKTugt2%2Bw%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAFxXSLSN5uS3spcbyMc0zXwnci%3DhCx5q%2B7-HbYqrHEKTugt2%2Bw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CA%2BBCJUh5QovjUBeBt1o%3DHargYMRhGTBuZYcnBsK5-YPevSp8FA%40mail.gmail.com.
