In the end one can ask, "What is the purpose of God (Allah or Ha Shem etc)?" It is similar to chasing the existential core down an infinite rabbit hole, maybe to become Dostoyevsky's underground man. There are no possible answers that can be rationally derived. Monotheist religions posit a disembodied conscious entity of infinite capacity, which because there is an infinite number of what might be called degrees of freedom virtually anything can be explained within the umbrella statement "God did it."
There are no need for theological constructions. These ancient ideas are mythic narratives or so called wisdom literature meant to invoke metaphorical ideations. These things have nothing to do any scientific understanding. LC On Thursday, June 30, 2022 at 8:25:01 PM UTC-5 Samiya wrote: > > Space: Before and Beyond > *Abstract * > The Quran hints on the existence of something prior to the creation of the > heavens and earth. > > > > *Full Text * > > وَمَا خَلَقْنَا السَّمَاءَ وَالْأَرْضَ وَمَا بَيْنَهُمَا لَاعِبِينَ > > لَوْ أَرَدْنَا أَن نَّتَّخِذَ لَهْوًا لَّاتَّخَذْنَاهُ مِن لَّدُنَّا إِن > كُنَّا فَاعِلِينَ > > Not for (idle) sport did We create the heavens and the earth and all that > is between! > If it had been Our wish to take (just) a pastime, We should surely have > taken it from the things nearest to Us, if We would do (such a thing)! > [Al-Quran 21:16 <https://www.islamawakened.com/quran/21/16/>-17 > <https://www.islamawakened.com/quran/21/17/>, Translation: Yusuf Ali] > > > According to these ayaat, there is something, some place other than the > heavens and the earth, which has existed since before it. It is outside > what we call Space. In fact, regarding space, it states: > > وَالسَّمَاءَ بَنَيْنَاهَا بِأَيْدٍ وَإِنَّا لَمُوسِعُونَ > > And the heaven We constructed it with strength, and indeed, We (are) > surely (its) Expanders. > [Al-Quran 51:47 <https://www.islamawakened.com/quran/51/47/>] > > > Surah ad-Dukhan (The Smoke) again states that these heavens and earth are > not without purpose: > > وَمَا خَلَقْنَا السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضَ وَمَا بَيْنَهُمَا لَاعِبِينَ > > مَا خَلَقْنَاهُمَا إِلَّا بِالْحَقِّ وَلَٰكِنَّ أَكْثَرَهُمْ لَا > يَعْلَمُونَ > > We created not the heavens, the earth, and all between them, merely in > (idle) sport: > We created them not except for just ends: but most of them do not > understand. > [Al-Quran 44:38 <https://www.islamawakened.com/quran/44/38>-39 > <https://www.islamawakened.com/quran/44/39/>, Translation: Yusuf Ali] > > > The Quran mentions the HOW of the creation of the heavens and earth, but > it focuses on the WHY. While it is fascinating to wonder about the HOW, it > is important to focus on the purpose and consequent final outcome: > > الَّذِينَ يَذْكُرُونَ اللَّهَ قِيَامًا وَقُعُودًا وَعَلَىٰ جُنُوبِهِمْ > وَيَتَفَكَّرُونَ فِي خَلْقِ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضِ رَبَّنَا مَا خَلَقْتَ > هَٰذَا بَاطِلًا سُبْحَانَكَ فَقِنَا عَذَابَ النَّارِ > > رَبَّنَا إِنَّكَ مَن تُدْخِلِ النَّارَ فَقَدْ أَخْزَيْتَهُ وَمَا > لِلظَّالِمِينَ مِنْ أَنصَارٍ > > Those who remember Allah standing, and sitting and on their sides and they > reflect on (the) creation (of) the heavens and the earth, "Our Lord, not > You have created this (in) vain. Glory be to You, so save us (from the) > punishment (of) the Fire. > Our Lord, indeed [You] whom You admit (to) the Fire then surely You (have) > disgraced him, and not for the wrongdoers (are) any helpers. > [Al-Quran 3:191 <https://www.islamawakened.com/quran/3/191/>-193 > <https://www.islamawakened.com/quran/3/193/>, Translation: Yusuf Ali] > > > > For more on purpose, please read Teleology: A purpose-built Universe? > <http://signsandscience.blogspot.com/2014/08/teleology-purpose-built-universe.html> > > > > *Science * > Scientist do not know if there was something before the 'Big Bang', the > most popular theory about the origin of our Universe. Wikipedia states > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre%E2%80%93Big_Bang_physics>: > > Pre–Big Bang physics (PBBP) are physics which can be speculated to have > existed prior to the Big Bang. PBBP may have been radically different from > the current laws of physics. > Although theoretical speculation on possible PBBP has only begun, research > into the field could hold incredible implications for the makeup of the > universe, and numerous possibilities beyond the limit of the current laws > of physics in possible existence prior to the Big Bang. > > https://signsandscience.blogspot.com/2019/01/space-before-and-beyond.html > > > On 01-Jul-2022, at 2:29 AM, Lawrence Crowell <[email protected]> > wrote: > > I do not want to get into this terribly much, not because of lack of > interest (this is connected to what I work on) but more because a sense of > futility. There is one difficulty with all of this; inflation stretched > space into a homogenous space that bears little data concerning what came > before inflation. Any fluctuation associated with the state of the cosmos > prior to inflation has been stretched to scales that may bear imprints on > the CMB or they may even be larger. If this cosmos in the inflationary or > pre-inflationary stage interacted with other vacuum bubbles or there were > other quantum gravitational physics it might have an imprint on the CMB. > The structure of anisotropies of the CMB temperature or amplitude does > contain some statistical kurtoses that may indicate something beyond a > white noise or Gaussian spectrum. > > > LC > > On Wednesday, June 29, 2022 at 1:23:58 PM UTC-5 medinuclear wrote: > >> >> https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/what-scientists-think-the-universe-was-like-before-the-big-bang/ >> >> >> [*Sean Carroll & Jennifer Chen*] >> >> “But is it possible that something could have existed before the Big >> Bang? After all, something couldn't have come from nothing, right? It turns >> out the answer is a bit complicated. For example, theoretical physicist ( >> *astronomer?*) Sean Carroll at the California Institute of Technology >> and his colleague Jennifer Chen have created their own theory for what may >> have occurred before our universe. Their paper on the subject, published in >> 2004, suggested that our universe could have been created as a result of a >> piece of space-time splitting from a *parent universe* (via Cornell >> University)”. >> >> [*Philip Benjamin*] >> >> Science is about observation, experimentation, logical analysis and >> rational inferences. What is the observation here? Only the universe as is! >> Nothing else. Does any sentence above obey the basic laws of logic, such as >> Law of Noncontradiction, Causality, Infinite Regress, Aseity etc.? Why >> can’t scientists be logical, rational and *humble enough* to at least >> admit that human mind is finite and science is incomplete, imprecise and >> indefinite. Nobody even knows what precisely even Big Bang is! Where did >> all that energy come from? Now to add to this irrationality, where did the >> *parent >> universe* come from? >> >> *Philip Benjamin * >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/66946837-2807-4f75-89ea-11a1cd4d5c38n%40googlegroups.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/66946837-2807-4f75-89ea-11a1cd4d5c38n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/3cd2d32e-a65c-46bd-baa0-96badebc708fn%40googlegroups.com.
