On Wednesday, October 16, 2024 at 11:14:53 PM UTC-6 Alan Grayson wrote:
On Wednesday, October 16, 2024 at 7:51:20 AM UTC-6 Alan Grayson wrote: On Wednesday, October 16, 2024 at 7:04:59 AM UTC-6 Alan Grayson wrote: On Wednesday, October 16, 2024 at 5:17:25 AM UTC-6 John Clark wrote: On Tue, Oct 15, 2024 at 10:37 AM Alan Grayson <[email protected]> wrote: *>> start the experiment with Bob and Alice synchronizing their clocks, shaking hands and then both of them accelerating by the same amount but in opposite directions for X amount of time as read by their own clocks. After that Alice would see that Bob's clock was running slow, and Bob would see that Alice's clock was running slow, this may seem odd but effect never comes before cause unless messages could be sent instantaneously.* *> This is not how the apparent paradox is resolved.* *It's resolved because although both see the other's clock as running slower than their own clock, and they can't agree what "simultaneous" means, both of them agree that cause always comes before effect, neither of them see time running backwards, and neither of them can returned to the spot where they started their journey before they started it. The situation is still odd because watching a friend go close to the speed of light is radically different from our everyday experience, but it produces no paradoxes. * *By the way, I don't think it will happen but if a way to send messages instantaneously was ever discovered that would be extremely strong evidence that Many Worlds must be correct because, as I explained before, it's the only way I can think of of making that particular logical paradox go away, if anybody can think of another way I'd love to hear it. However if somebody proved that instantaneous communication is physically impossible (I have no idea how you'd do that but never mind) that would not indicate Many Worlds is wrong because, although it doesn't need non-locality to work, it isn't destroyed by it either. As far as locality is concerned Many Worlds can take it or leave it. By contrast pilot wave theory needs non-locality or it won't work. * * > If it were, then SR would no longer be local and the future could effect the past, violating causality.* *Special Relativity doesn't violate causality because it says nothing can travel faster than light do to the fact that the faster you go the larger your effective mass becomes, so it would take an infinite amount of energy to reach the speed of light, and that much energy is simply not available in our universe. * *> So why do you insist that messages can be sent instantaneously?* *What the hell?! * *You're responding to a post I deleted. AG * *Why "What the hell?!" You write above that the alleged paradox goes away only if instantaneous action is possible, which you are skeptical about. So I did overstate what you think is going on here. However, the ostensible paradox might be caused by your misinterpretation of relative clock rates in SR. AG* *But didn't you conclude that Alice gets Bob's answer before she sent the question? If so, doesn't that require instantaneous transfer of information? If not, what were you trying to prove with this thought experiment? AG* *Ostensibly, applying SR, Bob concludes Alice's clock is running slower than his, and vice-versa for Alice, so you conclude Alice get Bob's response to her question before she sends it. Obviously, there's a major problem here and I suspect it's related to your interpretation of relative clock rates in SR. I can't say exactly what's the problem with your interpretation of relative clock rates. Nor do I understand what this has to do with the viability of MW. I hope you have more to say on this topic. AG * * John K Clark See what's on my new list at Extropolis <https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis>* hwt -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/346b0ce5-b3b7-40dc-bccd-9163638681afn%40googlegroups.com.
