On 12/18/2024 2:40 PM, John Clark wrote:
On Wed, Dec 18, 2024 at 5:32 PM Brent Meeker <[email protected]>
wrote:
//
/There seems to be an ambiguity in "one and only one state". In
the experiment there is a single Hilbert space vector describing a
neutron which travels both paths. So does "one and only one
state" really mean one and only one classical state?/
*If an object can be in more than one state at the same time *
My question is about what "one state" means. A superposition in one
basis is a single state in another basis.
*
*
*then obviously that object cannot be a classical object. And since,
as far as we know, everything can be put into more than one state at
the same time, reality can not be classical.
*
What if each object is always in only one state, it's just not always a
state we have a yes/no measurement for? Is L-G just showing that here's
an example for which we didn't think of a yes/no measurement. Or is it
that here's an example for which there's a measurement that's not yes/no
Brent
***John K Clark See what's on my new list at Extropolis
<https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis>*
efp
On 12/18/2024 11:45 AM, John Clark wrote:
Incidentally, if we're interested in reality, wondering if an
object was in one and only one state before it was measured, then
we should really be talking about the Leggett-Garg Inequality not
Bell because it's a generalization of Bell's Inequality that was
specifically designed to test reality. Very recently
experimenters have found that like Bell Leggett-Garg is also
violated. I wrote about that back in July and I repeat it now:
=====
*
Reality says that a macroscopic object exists in one and only one
state regardless of if it has been observed or not.**In 1985
Anthony Leggett and Anupam Garg published an inequality that
MUST be less than or equal to 1 if reality was true. It's similar
to Bell's Inequality but Bell was about the relationship between
two entangled particles, but Leggett-Garg is about if a
microscopic object can be in more than one state at the same
instant in time.*
*
*
*In the June 24, 2024 issue of the journal Physical Review
Letters, physicists tested the Leggett-Garg Inequality in an
experiment with neutron beams, and they got a value of 1.20 +-
0.007. That is larger than 1. The Leggett-Garg inequality is
violated. Reality is untrue.*
*
*
*Violation of a Leggett-Garg Inequality Using Ideal Negative
Measurements in Neutron Interferometry*
<https://journals.aps.org/prl/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevLett.132.260201>
*In their experiment they generated an intense neutron beam and
then, using a perfect silicon crystal, they split it into two
beams several centimeters apart. Then, using another crystal, the
two beams are re-combine back in the one beam and then hit the
detector. Each beam is made up of many millions of neutrons and
thus is huge by quantum standards, and there are two ways the
neutrons can travel from the source to the detector. *
*
*
*The lead researcher says "_The idea that maybe the neutron is
only traveling on one of the two paths, we just don’t know which
one” has thus been refuted_." Mathematically there is simply no
way the behavior of those neutrons can be explained by any
conceivable macroscopically realistic theory.*
*
*
*Incidentally, Many Worlds is _NOT_ a realistic theory.*
*
*
trn
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