On Mon, 2003-06-02 at 13:32, Brian V Bonini wrote: > On Mon, 2003-06-02 at 12:52, Lyvim Xaphir wrote: > > > > > Also, before you move to 9.1, I suggest you review your reasons for > > doing so. Are you looking for a more stable production environment or > > are you curious and just have alot of time to analyze 9.1. > > Are you saying 9.0 is more stable?
Look, I'm in a real tough position here. First, I am and always have been a supporter of Mandrake. I think they (as an entity) have more potential than any other distro company I've seen; in general, history has shown that the features of the Mandrake distro are just ahead of the game, in nearly all respects. I don't want to say this, but I have to say it because it is the truth. For users of 8.2 or maybe even 9.0 there is no cogent reason to upgrade to 9.1, if you are seeking a stable production system. The reasons I say this are myriad, but I'll cut it down to three or four. One, there was not enough manpower focused on 9.1 to release it as an improved distro over 9.0 or 8.2. This is demonstrable (at least on my system, which *has not changed* since LM82) because LM91 crashes and/or locks up, probably about an average of once per day. (It is also slower.) 30 minutes ago I was examining email, with no unusual activity going on, and XFree vaporized for no reason that I could discern, taking several smaller apps with it to their doom. That's just today. I won't say that LM82 never failed me at all, but I will say that I have a very strong memory of LM82 being about as stable as the crust of the planet Mars. Plus, it was faster. Second, it's been noted that there does not seem to be a formally presented system for production distro bugs or problems. Prior to the advent of 9.1 this was not a major issue, primarily because (IMO) the releases were so pristine that there was not a major need for one. The fact that there has been extensive discussion lately for a report route for production bug reports should be telling. Third, (mostly) because of the rpmdrake user interface (NOT the urpmi improvements at the CLI level, which *are* good), I consider LM82 to be better than either 9.0 or 9.1. User interfaces should be agreed on and voted on by the users, and they should not be unilateral elitist decisions handed down by somebody who is not listening to you. In the case of both 9.0 and 9.1, the new rpmdrake UI was VOTED DOWN by the users and the old interface was *specifically asked* to be reinstituted. (qualification: not the underlying urpmi structure/engine, just the UI, or user presentation.) Their pleas and concerns were ignored. In fact, in the months just prior to Dr Denis Havlik's departure from Mandrake corporate, the rpmdrake vote for 9.1 was *taken off* the voting forums in order to silence the voices that were calling for it's return. The fact that this aspect of the voting process is basically ignored by the developers is not an issue that I am willing to let go; ever. Not until it is addressed. So, like I said, it is not an easy position to be in. From where I sit, there need to be three major improvements in the future. 1) There should not be a cooker release labeled for production until it matches or exceeds the production performance of a satisfactory prior release. 2) There should be a formal production bug report system (utilizing Anthill preferably) that takes care of problems with supposedly stable production release bugs. In addition this should be priority over cooker, since your customer's work and productivity should be your first priority above all else. 3) If the voices of the paying members of Mandrakeclub are not heard within the Club voting system, then it calls into question the entire purpose of the voting system to begin with as well as the propaganda that idealizes it. It is not a selective matter with regard to votes. If you make provisions for your paying users to tell you what they want, then you don't tell them to shut up when they do, or try to silence them. That negates the purpose of the entire system and generates animosity. Yet that is exactly what has happened. --LX -- ������������������������������������������������ Kernel 2.4.21-0.13mdk Linux Mandrake 9.1 Enlightenment-0.16.5-12mdk Evolution 1.2.4-1.1mdk Linux User #268899 http://counter.li.org/ ������������������������������������������������
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