There is zero need to design a new car around longer rubbers or a spec shock. At the worst new rockers will need to be designed to get the rates right. I am certainly not planning on building a new car. The engineering necessary to put longer rubbers or a small spec shock onto an existing F500 is not a big deal. I will help ANYONE who really wants to do it. I do not care what car they have I will assist with design work.
One of the big problems with F500 is that the actual loads on the suspension bits are MANY TIMES HIGHER than on a car with conventional springs. If anyone will takes the time to actually measure the spring loads on as test machine you will see that the loads are only about 5 times as high as a conventional spring in the normal operating range (on a really good car), however just hope that you do not hit a bump or a curb (try IRP for example) because then the actual loads on the suspension brackets & springs can be 50 to 100 time the loads on a car with conventional springs. This is because of the nature of elastomers when used as springs. They esentially turn into a solid the more you compress them. This is why F500s can be as good as anything on a smooth track where the rubbers are not being overly compressed. Just ask yourselves if you would rather spend a very few more $$$ on longer rubbers or inexpensive shocks instead of constantly fixing cracked frames & worn out heims & every bushing known to mankind on your car. Why do you think F500s are totally worn out & are flexi-flyers after a few years. Anyway F500 is a great class but I suggest you look at the time difference from the front of the pack to the rear of the pack & then check out the Vees to see their time spread. I guarantee you that a lot of the time spread in F500 is due to the fact that at least 1/2 the cars do not handle nearly as well as the guys who have figured it out. I have NOTHING TO SELL HERE, I am trying to help F500 & that is all. All my stuff is for sale & we are doing something else (unless there are no buyers) & then the old man will have to get in the seat again. Some day my ad might show up on the F500 site as I sent it in over a week ago. Thanks ... Jay Novak -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Chris Reinhardt Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 11:34 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [F500] Pucks again Cory, there's no foundation that new cars will be built around new shocks, ask any of the builders, Jay for example on here, there isn't enough money/new driver's/interest in the class to design/build a new car. Here's a recent example, the Rakovan, do you think he wants to build a new car around a new shock to find out it will outlawed? We keep getting back to the fear of the unknown.. CR Cory McLeod <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: HEY EVERYONE - read the post below again. It's from the same newbie who posted earlier today for advice on buying his first car. Heaven forbid - he wants to join our class JUST LIKE IT IS. What attracted him to our class is not a "vintage mentality", but I'm guessing it was at least partially due to the great bang for the buck. Were all the new trick exhausts, carb air boxes and clutch set-ups in Topeka 2 weeks ago "vintage"? Will someone spend the money to design a car around new shocks - HELL YES! This is racing. Any opportunity that exists for someone to spend more money and go faster WILL BE TAKEN. One of the strengths of our class is that the opportunities and motivations to spend exponential sums of money are limited. Let's not mess this positive up with shocks or trannys. Even if the shock is only $125, existing cars will have to be redesigned and new cars designed around the shocks will obsolete the older cars. The cost of being competitive will go up at a much higher rate than the current controlled evolution of the class. With all props to Q, it's a good thing that a highly evolved version of a 10+ year old design won the Runoffs again this year. Rules stability = more bang for the buck. F500 is not an entry-level stepping stone class, and I don't want it to be. My opinion is not "vintage", it's realistic. This is a club racing class for guys that like to have as much fun as possible for a reasonable cost on a level playing field. We can keep this class going by getting our cars out (buying a new one in my case) and running them as much as possible, and promoting the class. If the desire is out there for an entry-level stepping stone formula car class with bike motors, shocks, and trannys (aka - the $25k holy grail), by all means go start the class and let it become the next Spec Miata. If it kills F500 - so be it, that's survival of the fittest. Let's just not sacrifice F500 up front in search of that holy grail. Cory Christopher Eveland wrote: On 10/24/06, Chris Reinhardt wrote: > I think we already went through this but.... A inexpensive oil/spring shock is about the same price or less that the current puck/shock assemble. And ANY oil dampened shock would be better than none. OK, I'm just a newbie here that doesn't even have an F500 yet, but I'll throw in my $0.000002 just because this gets at _why_ I'm a newbie here. I'm coming from stock class autox to F500/club racing, and I have to say that the 2nd* most frustrating thing about running stock class autox is the price of the shocks you need to be competitive: about $3500. Thats why I co-drove at Nationals, rather than take my own car. If any shock rule is going to get proposed, they've _got_ to do better than they have for the solo2 stock rules. -Chris * #1 most frustrating is that you need a new car every 2-3 years. :P --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. 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