From: "Art" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: [F500] FM Autocrosser ALERT!
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 07:47:32 -0500
Hi Bob,
>Having owned a Solo FV I can say that when you buy one you know you are
buying 1938 design (VW parts) and you live with it.
Yes, that is correct. But in Solo you are not buying a FV, you're buying a
VW 1600 cc VW powered Vee bastardized into a Solo Vee and running against a
much more modern (even without a suspension), smaller, lighter, GCR
regulated, formula car. Big difference. As I said in an earlier post, you
can't have parity in any class if one of the cars is an antique and the
other utilizes current technology and design as well as having other
attributes that make it a very good Solo car.
If you could combine them, you'd see FVs/FSTs and F500s in the same class.
We see enough of that disaster when they combine those cars in the same run
group in racing.
We have to try and update the Solo Vee and if you can point to the results
that show the Solo Vees to be knocking at the door of the well prepared
F500s at Nationals/Tours in the past 4 or 5 years, it must have been
something we missed :-).
>Also having been told that John McDonalds car, before he bought it, was
putting out 125hp,
Every professional VW engine builder that we had talked to in the past
about
updating the 1600 engine would laugh at that figure for a currently legal
1600 engine in F Mod. Is there an outside chance that HP figure would be
available, yes it is possible, but it would be nothing more then a grenade
that would last a few minutes of run time and then explode in a crowd
pleasing display :-). Bottom line Bob, somebody told you MacDonald's car
was
making that much HP. Without some dyno sheets to back that up, it's only
good bench racing talk :-).
But if you think that the proposals for the Vees are so "unreal", then may
I
suggest that you put the bike back in the garage, make your wife happy, and
go out and purchase a Solo Vee and stay in F Mod :-). We don't care what
you
drive, we just like having you in the class :-).
Art
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of fmod
Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2007 9:38 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [F500] FM Autocrosser ALERT!
Having owned a Solo FV I can say that when you buy one you know you are
buying 1938 design (VW parts) and you live with it. The changes that were
mentioned are unreal. The ones who do do this are again remaking the
SuperV. It will cost a lot of money and they still have swingarm rearends.
I will make a guess that after a few years if a few build these cars they
will be runing C-Mod times and will get moved to C-Mod. If that were to
happen, we as F440 and F500 owners should remind the SCCA that our cars are
GCR Legal formula cars and make F-Mod for F440/F500 cars period! Also
having been told that John McDonalds car, before he bought it, was putting
out 125hp, I don't see why a 1900cc dual port VW engine can't produce 140hp
and I would bet that 60% or more of its power will come in at about 2500 to
3000 rpm's!
I guess I am sure glad I am cutting back on Solo II for a while and riding
my new Suzuki!
BobbyJ
F-Mod NER SCCA
25 year member!
----- Original Message -----
From: "GaryK" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 8:28 PM
Subject: RE: [F500] FM Autocrosser ALERT!
> The real question is...
>
> Who is going to makes these changes, updates, to their Solo Vee's? Not
> everyone, just a few I believe.
>
> Remember, these changes are not legal for this year, but could be for
next
> year as they are looking for member comment on them right now.
>
> And I agree with Art, there is no reason they can't join the 21st
century.
>
> Gary
>
>
> At 07:41 AM 2/22/2007, Art wrote:
>> >What the hell is the MAC thinking on this thing?????????
>>
>>Obviously John, much differently then you :-).
>>
>>But seriously, everything that we have recommended, other then the
engine
>>options, will not improve their performance potential to any great
degree.
>>It may help them somewhat but it was done for other reasons and
basically
>>to
>>bring their cars into the 21st century. You can't have parity between
any
>>two or more cars if there is an antique in the mix.
>>
>>Improvements along the lines of Formula First rules, gives them options
>>for
>>easier and better maintenance of their cars. And sometimes when they
make
>>their choices, there is a trade off in increased weight for them to
>>ponder.
>>
>>Quite frankly John, WE already have those things or capabilities on our
>>cars. Why shouldn't they? Why shouldn't they be able to ditch their
"1938
>>design" components and bring them into our world?
>>
>>As far as the engine options, I think you need to do some VW engine
>>research
>>prior to panicking. A "torquey 140 HP" engine? We don't think so and all
>>the
>>information we have found or people we have talked to, would not support
>>that figure.
>>
>>Reread the proposal again. There will be two engine improvement options
>>and
>>there will be no intermixing of parts of those individual options. They
>>can
>>choose only one. If they choose the "big bore" kit avenue, they will not
>>be
>>able to do anything with their carburetion or valve sizes. They will
only
>>be
>>allowed to have the overbore. They still will be restricted to their
>>current
>>single two barrel carb and valve size. That's a big restriction.
>>
>>If they choose the other option, they will be able to go with
unrestricted
>>carburetion, an increase in valve size, plus a weight reduction of 25#.
>>That's really going to make them a killer car.......not!
>>
>>When was the last time any Solo Vee came really close to a F500 at
>>Nationals
>>or Tours? Look at the results for the past five or so years. Our job is
to
>>improve that possibility.
>>
>>They are in the same class as us and the MAC is responsible for keeping
>>things as level as humanly possible for all cars. We feel that what we
>>have
>>offered will do that. I'm sure you are all for competition, right John?
>>
>>Yes, everyone should read the proposal and then....... think about
things
>>and talk to people who know VW engines or FVs before they rush to
judgment
>>:-).
>>
>>Art
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John
>>Whitling
>>Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 7:40 AM
>>To: F 500 mailing list
>>Subject: [F500] FM Autocrosser ALERT!
>>
>>Well, the SCCA has reviewed the situation with Formula/Solo Vees in FMod
>>and
>>they are giving the Vee guys much more than I believe they should be
>>considering. Up to 1900 cc, limited slips, disc brakes, reduced weight,
>>ball
>>joint adjustable camber front ends and more. I suggest that we all
>>carefully
>>read the March Fasttrack for more .. it starts on about page 44.
>>
>>Anyone that knows me knows I'm all in favor of giving the Vees some
>>incentives, however after looking over the rules changes I can see where
>>the
>>Solo Vees would be able to handily beat even the Formula Fords.
>>Imagine unlimited tires and wheels (they already have that), a tourquey
>>140
>>hp motor (just my guess on 1900 cc motor output), limited slips, and
over
>>100 lbs lighter than a FF. We really need to evaluate whether these
>>changes
>>are acceptable to us.
>>
>>What the hell is the MAC thinking on this thing?????????
>>
>>[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type text/x-vcard which had a
name
>>of
