Art, when I get a chance I will talk to Dick Shine and I think he will tell
me that 140hp with a 1900cc will not be that hard. Dick once told me that
he could build a legal SoloV engine with 115hp and maybe a little more. So
with a few things that would be hard to find, 125hp would be possible.
Also, I would never put that much money into a SoloV even if I had it.
There are too many National Road Race NovaKar's and others which would be
1/3 the price of what SCCA is talking about letting SoloV's do. You don't
want to know how much John has in his D-13, put it is enough to buy a new
Honda S2000 with enough change to buy a good National F-500. But at least
his can be turned back into a real good D-13 with just a little work and
engine swap.
Also if I don't sell my car I plan on trying to find someone to co-drive
after I retire from work. That way I will have the time to do the things I
like to do, plus Solo2 and cut down on the cost.
Remember non-GCR cars do have a place to run, it is called A-Mod.
Hope it is warm in Florida, it is really cold up here!
BobbyJ
#5 Fmod NER
----- Original Message -----
From: "Art" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 7:47 AM
Subject: RE: [F500] FM Autocrosser ALERT!
Hi Bob,
Having owned a Solo FV I can say that when you buy one you know you are
buying 1938 design (VW parts) and you live with it.
Yes, that is correct. But in Solo you are not buying a FV, you're buying a
VW 1600 cc VW powered Vee bastardized into a Solo Vee and running against
a
much more modern (even without a suspension), smaller, lighter, GCR
regulated, formula car. Big difference. As I said in an earlier post, you
can't have parity in any class if one of the cars is an antique and the
other utilizes current technology and design as well as having other
attributes that make it a very good Solo car.
If you could combine them, you'd see FVs/FSTs and F500s in the same class.
We see enough of that disaster when they combine those cars in the same
run
group in racing.
We have to try and update the Solo Vee and if you can point to the results
that show the Solo Vees to be knocking at the door of the well prepared
F500s at Nationals/Tours in the past 4 or 5 years, it must have been
something we missed :-).
Also having been told that John McDonalds car, before he bought it, was
putting out 125hp,
Every professional VW engine builder that we had talked to in the past
about
updating the 1600 engine would laugh at that figure for a currently legal
1600 engine in F Mod. Is there an outside chance that HP figure would be
available, yes it is possible, but it would be nothing more then a grenade
that would last a few minutes of run time and then explode in a crowd
pleasing display :-). Bottom line Bob, somebody told you MacDonald's car
was
making that much HP. Without some dyno sheets to back that up, it's only
good bench racing talk :-).
But if you think that the proposals for the Vees are so "unreal", then may
I
suggest that you put the bike back in the garage, make your wife happy,
and
go out and purchase a Solo Vee and stay in F Mod :-). We don't care what
you
drive, we just like having you in the class :-).
Art
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of fmod
Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2007 9:38 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [F500] FM Autocrosser ALERT!
Having owned a Solo FV I can say that when you buy one you know you are
buying 1938 design (VW parts) and you live with it. The changes that
were
mentioned are unreal. The ones who do do this are again remaking the
SuperV. It will cost a lot of money and they still have swingarm
rearends.
I will make a guess that after a few years if a few build these cars they
will be runing C-Mod times and will get moved to C-Mod. If that were to
happen, we as F440 and F500 owners should remind the SCCA that our cars
are
GCR Legal formula cars and make F-Mod for F440/F500 cars period! Also
having been told that John McDonalds car, before he bought it, was putting
out 125hp, I don't see why a 1900cc dual port VW engine can't produce
140hp
and I would bet that 60% or more of its power will come in at about 2500
to
3000 rpm's!
I guess I am sure glad I am cutting back on Solo II for a while and riding
my new Suzuki!
BobbyJ
F-Mod NER SCCA
25 year member!
----- Original Message -----
From: "GaryK" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 8:28 PM
Subject: RE: [F500] FM Autocrosser ALERT!
The real question is...
Who is going to makes these changes, updates, to their Solo Vee's? Not
everyone, just a few I believe.
Remember, these changes are not legal for this year, but could be for
next
year as they are looking for member comment on them right now.
And I agree with Art, there is no reason they can't join the 21st
century.
Gary
At 07:41 AM 2/22/2007, Art wrote:
>What the hell is the MAC thinking on this thing?????????
Obviously John, much differently then you :-).
But seriously, everything that we have recommended, other then the engine
options, will not improve their performance potential to any great
degree.
It may help them somewhat but it was done for other reasons and basically
to
bring their cars into the 21st century. You can't have parity between any
two or more cars if there is an antique in the mix.
Improvements along the lines of Formula First rules, gives them options
for
easier and better maintenance of their cars. And sometimes when they make
their choices, there is a trade off in increased weight for them to
ponder.
Quite frankly John, WE already have those things or capabilities on our
cars. Why shouldn't they? Why shouldn't they be able to ditch their "1938
design" components and bring them into our world?
As far as the engine options, I think you need to do some VW engine
research
prior to panicking. A "torquey 140 HP" engine? We don't think so and all
the
information we have found or people we have talked to, would not support
that figure.
Reread the proposal again. There will be two engine improvement options
and
there will be no intermixing of parts of those individual options. They
can
choose only one. If they choose the "big bore" kit avenue, they will not
be
able to do anything with their carburetion or valve sizes. They will only
be
allowed to have the overbore. They still will be restricted to their
current
single two barrel carb and valve size. That's a big restriction.
If they choose the other option, they will be able to go with
unrestricted
carburetion, an increase in valve size, plus a weight reduction of 25#.
That's really going to make them a killer car.......not!
When was the last time any Solo Vee came really close to a F500 at
Nationals
or Tours? Look at the results for the past five or so years. Our job is
to
improve that possibility.
They are in the same class as us and the MAC is responsible for keeping
things as level as humanly possible for all cars. We feel that what we
have
offered will do that. I'm sure you are all for competition, right John?
Yes, everyone should read the proposal and then....... think about things
and talk to people who know VW engines or FVs before they rush to
judgment
:-).
Art
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John
Whitling
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 7:40 AM
To: F 500 mailing list
Subject: [F500] FM Autocrosser ALERT!
Well, the SCCA has reviewed the situation with Formula/Solo Vees in FMod
and
they are giving the Vee guys much more than I believe they should be
considering. Up to 1900 cc, limited slips, disc brakes, reduced weight,
ball
joint adjustable camber front ends and more. I suggest that we all
carefully
read the March Fasttrack for more .. it starts on about page 44.
Anyone that knows me knows I'm all in favor of giving the Vees some
incentives, however after looking over the rules changes I can see where
the
Solo Vees would be able to handily beat even the Formula Fords.
Imagine unlimited tires and wheels (they already have that), a tourquey
140
hp motor (just my guess on 1900 cc motor output), limited slips, and over
100 lbs lighter than a FF. We really need to evaluate whether these
changes
are acceptable to us.
What the hell is the MAC thinking on this thing?????????
[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type text/x-vcard which had a name
of
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