I like the idea that it is all the student when it comes to darshan, but for a different reason than MMY. I think it is an innate human capacity probably from our primate culture of dominance. Add to this hours of waiting in states of meditation and boredom and you have a perfect formula for an amazing experience.
I had plenty of "MMY as a source of something magical" experiences while in his presence, and plenty of him as a regular Indian man. Spending day after day in India with him was pretty telling. I remember when he came to a celebration with his loin cloth twisted in a knot about something and really came off as the most UN-magical cranky old fart for the evening. It was surprising that the magic was ALL gone that night. I just couldn't summon the experience for a guy who was acting like a dad who had slipped on a carelessly placed skateboard on the way in, and was fuming about it. Hundreds of millions of people perceived Mao as a god. Lots of miracle stories about a guy who killed so many millions of people he is second behind Stalin. Did he have special shakti power? (Anyone who proposes that he did and it comes from an Asura or demon must buy an indulgence from the Catholic Church like a saint's fingernail and send me the receipt before I will respond) Do all people who are experienced as giving darshan really have the power or is there something else at play here? I think the darshan experience is a fascinating part of our human nature, but the philosophy of what it all means from traditional sources is not informative. MMY can both be the focus of amazing personal experiences and at the same time another bag of flesh and bones like us once we understand that we create it ourselves for ourselves. You can experience your own power as if it is coming from another person, but that isn't what I believe is going on. It is the same in celebrity culture, rock star backstage parties and anytime a human looks up to another human. We are wired that way. Early on certain types of people learned how to exploit this experience to help prop up the belief that they are intrinsically different in some way from you and I. Charisma is a kind of magic. But when people try to pawn it off as "radiating pure knowledge" or the power to enlighten others by their presence...they should read all about the magical darshan of Chuck Manson. His followers had amazing experiences of his personal "power", and they proved how strong that experience can be. It was a useful part of our programming when we had to spot the leader of our troupe quickly, but it is a quality of human nature that modern humans need to keep an eye on IMO. --- In [email protected], new.morning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Some good points. > > On different responses to darshan, MMY made clear, at least from his > side, and presumably he was pretty attuned to the dynamics of SBS' > darshan, if not of a much larger group, by tradition. > > {Paraphrasing} 'It all comes from the student.The student thinks it > all comes from the teacher, but it is not so. The teacher is the well > head. The water from the well flows in which ever way it is tapped. > The well does nothing. Its all from the student. Like a golden chain > is attached between teacher an student. And then everything flows. The > teacher has nothing to do with the chain. Its all in the student.' > [this was a paraphrase not a direct quote.] > > --- In [email protected], Bronte Baxter > <brontebaxter8@> wrote: > > > > Pretty darn good questions again, New Morning. I think the various > experiences come from our varying expectations. I went to see Amma, > got real close to her, didn't do the hug thing. I was never impressed, > felt no dharshan. Yet a friend of mine swears by her -- the dharshan > for him is intense. I read a newspaper reporter on Amma saying she > felt nothing particular from the hug. Yet others claim that hug > changed their lives. > > > > Remember the movie "Leap of Faith" where Steve Martin plays the > phony faith healer? He was instrumental in an actual cure. The > crippled man sincerely believed in Steve Martin and in Christ and had > an authenthic healing. This, in turn, caused the phony faith healer > (who up til then had been a con-man and atheist) to change his heart > and believe in something beyond what his senses could perceive. > > > > As far as dharshan goes, though, I don't count it as much. In > fact, I'm suspicious of it. I saw some videos George DeForest linked > us to from this site, of David Spero, a guru, and there was little > doubt for me the guy is wired to something very powerful. Lots of > shakti, even coming through the computer screen. But what is that > energy, that shakti? Is it necessarily something benign? People say > guru shakti zaps them into a transcendental state. At what possible > cost? Who is it who's doing the zapping? Is it the Infinite One? Could > it be a being from outside this dimension, using the human guru as a > channel? If so, for malice or for good? Could the goal possibly be to > devour human individuality, turning people into empty bone sacks? Or > does that shakti really bring the spirit home to God? > > > > Yes, I know the traditional answers. But they were given us by the > zappers. When you look at their lives, do those lives typically > demonstrate something we want, do they indicate people we can trust > and respect? If our history with gurus shows we so rarely can trust or > respect them, can we trust their answers about where their shakti > comes from and the effect it is having in our lives? I don't trust any > of it. I consider the evidence, and draw my own conclusions. > > > > If a teacher is hooked up to shakti, and radiates it, that simply > means they're connected to cosmic energy. Energy is only half of the > consciousness/energy equation. What is the nature of their > consciousness? Is it nihilist, annihilating individuality? Is it > self-centered and sensual, having sex with young disciples? Is it > self-centered and greed-ridden? > > > > When such qualities are present, who cares if they have shakti? > The devil himself has shakti, I'm sure, if such a person exists. > Shakti is just power. Hitler, for instance, had incredible charisma. > Would he make a good guru? >
