Thanks, Angela. for the lovely description.
--- In [email protected], Angela Mailander <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
>
>
> What did angels look like?
> Different every time. The first
> time I saw the phenomenon I canât but call âangel,â I was fifteen years
> old. Iâd rigged a large coffee can and a
> Bunsen burner in the garage to make a small kiln and was enameling on
> copper. I like translucent enamels best,
> but if you want to do cool blues and greens, you canât really get that
> effect
> on copper even if you put down a layer of flux first. So I remembered that
> my mom
(who was at work
> killing dogs), had some small, sixteenth century silver platesâ"perfect for
> cool
> blues and greens.
>
>
>
>
>
> The trouble was that sixteenth century silver is so pure
> that it melted in my kiln. Just before
> it flowed into the bottom of the coffee can, it was incandescent liquid, yet
> still held its form. In that moment, it
> came alive and indistinct from me, and while I still saw it as an
> âexternalâ
> object, its center and mine were one, and from that center exploded a sound
> like
> a thousand silver bells. That sound
> expanded from my center, which was the silver, like ring-shaped waves in
> water (which
was I)
> spread out to infinity, repeating again and again. The pleasure of those
> expanding â
sound-ringsâ
> was intense, all-consuming beyond imagining, and filled all my senses.
>
>
>
>
>
> With the experience came knowledge, not separate in words,
> but part and parcel of the experience itself, though to communicate it, I have
> to translate into words. I knew I saw
> the angel that makes silver. It is not
> the case that the angel is one thing and silver is another. The angel showed
> me how he
creates himself as
> silver. I knew the process to be sacred
> and saw that silver is not just silver but intelligence making itself into
> form. I saw it
emerge from a sacred ground of
> nothing which was nothing, yet intelligent.
> I was an atheist at the time, so this was not something I was inclined
> to add to the experience; the knowledge, as I said, was part of the
> experience.
>
>
>
>
>
> Since then, I have had that kind of experience often, but it
> is different each time in that the angel of silver has appeared only once.
> But I have seen
the angel of winter
> wheat and the angel of purple cabbages, just for example--the world looks as
> if made
of translucent light in such moments.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I can see how, given experiences like that, we might be
> tempted to say that âcreationâ or the âuniverseâ or âmultiverseâ
> or
whatever
> you want to call it emerges from a field of pure consciousness, but I stand
> with
> Curtis: Such experience is not evidence that the absolute vacuum state of the
> quantum field is identical with pure consciousness, though it might be
> evidence
> that the human mind is more mysterious than psychologists have fathomed.
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: wayback71 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 11:12:21 AM
> Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Maharishi Effect" Quantum-Failure Essay
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com, Angela Mailander
> <mailander111@ ...>
wrote:
>
> >
>
> > Personal experience however subtle does not by itself count as evidence.
> > It might
>
> satisfy you to see what you see. I have seen what I can only call angels,
> but does that
>
> mean angels exist? While the experience is groovy to the max, I wouldn't
> call it
evidence.
>
> Some folks might be tempted to call it evidence that I'm nuts. And, no, they
> didn't look
>
> like people and they didn't have wings.
>
>
>
> What did they look like?
>
> >
>
> > ----- Original Message ----
>
> > From: Vaj <vajranatha@ ...>
>
> > To: FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com
>
> > Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 7:43:35 AM
>
> > Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Maharishi Effect" Quantum-Failure Essay
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > On Dec 29, 2007, at 8:18 PM, Patrick Gillam wrote:
>
> >
>
> > omments interleaved below.
>
> >
>
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com, Vaj <vajranatha@ ...> wrote:
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > On Dec 28, 2007, at 11:33 AM, Patrick Gillam wrote:
>
> > >
>
> > > > I'm curious - how many people here believe
>
> > > > consciousness is the fundamental substrate
>
> > > > of creation? If you do, what evidence do you
>
> > > > put forth to back up your belief?
>
> > >
>
> > > While I would agree that consciousness, the alaya-vijnana, is the
>
> > > basic substrate-conscious ness, my answer changes when you add "of
>
> > > creation". By "of creation" I take that to mean the physical universe.
>
> > > Once we include the universe as a physical object and seek to identify
>
> > > or intuit a unifying substrate that transcends AND includes
>
> > > materiality it becomes a different answer.
>
> >
>
> > I'm asking for viewpoints on Maharishi's teaching
>
> > that physical creation arises out of undifferentiated
>
> > consciousness. So yes, I'm wondering about a
>
> > substrate that transcends and includes materiality.
>
> >
>
> > Well then that would be like the "consciousness only" school where
> > consciousness is
the
>
> creator.
>
> >
>
> > > From any "whole" that
>
> > > includes materiality I'd be forced to say prana is the unifying field
>
> > > interconnecting all of these (consciousness( es) and materials), this
>
> > > and akasha or fundamental Space. The reason I include Space is with a
>
> > > material object you need at least space. If that Space contains
>
> > > evolutionary activity, that Space requires Time. By "Time" I mean "Big
>
> > > Time" or "macrocosmic time".
>
> >
>
> > Seems to me that Space would arise out of
>
> > the substrate as well. And isn't prana a "relative"
>
> > phenomenon, to use Maharishi's phrasing, and
>
> > hence something that would be created from
>
> > an unmanifest, transcendent reality, as well?
>
> >
>
> > In some ways-of-seeing, it is a subtle prana that is the sole support for
> > an individual
>
> between existences. The same applies to universes. But even in yogic creation
> theory
the
>
> "power of the mirror", the vimarsha-shakti, is the power that allows infinite
> recursion to
>
> flesh-out the Big Dream.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > > If you ask about the individual consciousness' POV, it's a slightly
>
> > > different answer! It also changes if you use a word other than
>
> > > "creation". For example, I would prefer 'a network that is
>
> > > simultaneously network and node, node and network, instantaneously
>
> > > arising out of the sum interplay of a multiverse'. When that's the
>
> > > case, I can see and experience directly consciousness as primary. But
>
> > > lest we fool ourselves we should also be aware that this also implies
>
> > > a yogi would can pass his hand through matter as if it was truly an
>
> > > illusion. It's an easy claim to make, few truly and completely live at
>
> > > that absolute a level, but they do IME exist. :-)
>
> >
>
> > This is what I'm really interested in - empirical
>
> > evidence. Most of us got theory up the yinyang
>
> > 30 years ago. By now it seems we'd have lots of
>
> > evidence to validate the theory.
>
> >
>
> > I fear I'm dumbing down some fine detail here.
>
> >
>
> > Well one thing these traditions do do, the Hindu and Buddhist traditions,
> > is tell you in
no
>
> uncertain terms what level of fineness our meditation has to be at for us to
> have clear
>
> insight into the universe. The Hindu yogis point out that perception must be
> very
refined
>
> to even be able to cognize such insight. If you take the shortest syllable
> that you can
utter
>
> (called a "matra") and divide it 600 times, that's the level of subtlety of a
> mental
cognition
>
> that a yogi must perceive. This is the level of "microcosmic I-time" that a
> yogi must
have
>
> in order to perceive the multiverse as part of his or her own direct
> experience. And I just
>
> don't see many meditators who can perceive that finely. Most of what you hear
> people
>
> talking about is projections from conditioning they've acquired, not very
> fine cognition.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Yes, if you did have a meditation technique that went that subtle, we would
> > have all
the
>
> evidence that we need!
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > It's one thing to wax philosophical about "the unified field", it's quite
> > another to truly
>
> experience it. In order to do that we need to transcend the basic "refresh
> rate" of
>
> cognition, much like if you could blink fast enough and in the correct
> timing, you could
>
> see that the computer monitor you're using is actually just a sequence of
> pulses,
displayed
>
> on a screen or monitor.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Thanks for your thoughtful inquiry Patrick!
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > <!--
>
> >
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>
> > -->
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger .yahoo.com
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
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