Great response Vaj. Thanks for expanding my perspective on the varieties of meditations. I was, as you know, only deeply involved in TM.
This point interested me: > In any event, not all meditation is the same. Different types of > meditation produce different results. For some scientific input on > this idea, check out the article "Neuroscience May Explain the Dalai > Lama": > > http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23829470/ > When I read this description it reminds me of self hypnosis and NLP techniques for practicing emotional skills. This is why I think it is so important to combine information from hypnosis and traditional mediations. This kind of neuro grooving, practicing and internal feeling has a lot of potential. I guess societies and religion have all been trying to do this indirectly. It seems pretty mailable, we can turn a kid into a killer in boot camp, but judging from the descriptions of how killing effects solders (and how few actually can pull the trigger in actual combat) there may be some root social patterns that some programming has to fight. So I think we need secular meditations to study. But the problem is that without the belief structure that you are learning the secrets of the universe of gaining enlightenment, will people really stick with them? I have often pondered why I don't do more with what I know from NLP and self hypnosis to better my life. I seem to be able to take the lazy man route regularly and do TM. But I have never committed to doing other internal practices. For example I really can't see myself doing the Buddhist compassion meditation. I feel as though I have as much of that as I want and can't imagine feeling a need to develop more of it. I don't know what quality I should be working on and am too old and obstinate to let someone else tell me! I'm probably not alone in this. And only a small group who didn't grow up with Buddhism would be likely to take meditation in any Buddhist wrapper. I certainly wouldn't really be opened to it if it came with any set of ancient beliefs. Not that I can't learn from the past, but I am done taking any package deals. I am a "choose your own side dishes" guy. I'll have to do more reading about the choices in Buddhism as well as examining my own internal resistance to organized beliefs of any kind. As for the Dali Lama, I think he is an interesting guy. But I don't hold him as mega wise. It isn't as if he had a lot of emotional moves concerning his country's plight. He wouldn't do well selling bitterness and revenge. He has gotten the rock star royalty treatment a little too long for me to believe he really understands my world. Same with Ravi Shankar. I know why they are smiling all the time. It is my neighbor with the 3 kids from 3 bay daddies whose daily smile I feel is harder earned each and every day. I really can't imagine more than a fringe group in society embracing meditation. But I've been wrong more than I've been right in predicting anything about my fellow man! Thanks for taking the discussion to another level Vaj! Your interest in meditations of different types is an inspiration. --- In [email protected], Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Jun 13, 2008, at 11:07 AM, curtisdeltablues wrote: > > > But getting back to meditation and its claim to make people kinder or > > even more sensitive to the needs of others just by mechanically doing > > the practice... can't we call this one here and now? We all know a > > few too many long term meditators to make such a claim. It just > > doesn't hold up, does it? > > Different styles of meditation and different intentions in the > meditation creates different neuroplastic changes in the brain. It's > pretty well established that certain forms of mindfulness meditation > actually enhances and thickens the allocentric and social parts of > the brain. Not only are these parts of the brain responsible for > having loving and kind feelings towards others, they're also the > areas of the brain responsible for carry out loving and kind actions. > > Of course, some forms of meditation can do the opposite, emphasize > the egocentric aspects of brain change. > > > > > And I'm not sure adding in religion shifts the balance too much > > either. Too much talk and not enough walk, plus each religion has > > conditions where you can act like a total dick to others, so it > > becomes a choice of who to apply the "judgment" side to. Dickishness > > becomes easier to apply if you only hang out with similar people in > > customs and mindset, and harder if you mix it up more and know people > > with radically different backgrounds and POVs. The effect of > > interacting with different people from different cultures seem like a > > good way to increase tolerance of others which is a good start on > > compassion. You don't see them as the "others" so much. > > > > So ethics from practicing meditation...I don't buy it. It may help a > > person become comfortable with themself, which for some people may be > > a basis for being compassionate with others. But I've seen a bit too > > much evidence that this can go either way to even claim this. > > We actually now have a pretty good idea of which parts of the brain > are associated with different virtuous thought-patterns and carrying > out actions associated with those patterns. There's a good talk on > TED Talks on this very subject: > > http://www.ted.com/speakers/view/id/205 > > In any event, not all meditation is the same. Different types of > meditation produce different results. For some scientific input on > this idea, check out the article "Neuroscience May Explain the Dalai > Lama": > > http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23829470/ >
