It is great posts like this that make FFL worth reading. Thanks Anon, nice job.
--- anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: snip > > > > > > ??? Anger, like all other experience, is a > relative thing. While > someone in Unity may well be > > "one with the anger," you can make a case that the > analysis of > someone in CC's anger is > > as far as you need go in discussing this issue (at > least *I* make > that case). > > > > With someone in CC, you have Self and you have > everything else, > including all emotional > > states. As long as those emotional states don't > draw the person out > of CC, then those > > states doesn't touch their essential nature. > > > > You can say that they are angry (have the > experience of anger) and > yet are untouched by > > it, on the level of Self. > > > > When dealing with what the Gita says, recall that > it can be > interpreted according to the > > state of consciousness of the reader. For someone > who is in waking > state, the verses are a > > warning against anger because it is detrimental > for growth. For > someone transitioning into > > CC, they are still a warning about growth because > anger, according > to the Gita, is the most > > likely thing to draw someone out of Self. For > someone in CC, they > are an observation that > > someone in CC isn't angry in the sense that Self > can't get angry > even if body can. > > That is a laudible statement consistent with TMO > teachings -- the > Atman is not disturbed. However, the Gita is saying > something beyond this. > > **************************************************** > A person whose mind [anudvigna-manah] is unperturbed > by sorrow, who > does not crave pleasures, and who is free from > attachment, fear, and > ANGER; such a person is called a sage of steady > Prajna. (2.56) > krodhah--anger > > One develops attachment to sense objects by thinking > about sense > objects. Desire for sense objects comes from > attachment to sense > objects, and ANGER comes from unfulfilled desires. > (2.62) > > Delusion arises from ANGER. The mind is bewildered > by delusion. > Reasoning is destroyed when the mind is bewildered. > One falls down > (from the right path) when reasoning is destroyed. > (2.63) > ****************************************************** > > The Gita refers not to Atman, but to the mind, > specifically "manas" > [in text its "manah" form of manas]. In a > self-realized one the MANAS > is not disturbed, is not agitated. This probably > has to do with the > manas-maya-kosha being purified or burned away. > > In addition, note that "fear" and "craving of > pleasure" are also > absent in the manas of a realized one. While your > (sparig) > perspective is still true, the Atman is not > perterbed by anger (fear > and craving), the Gita is making an even deeper > point. It refers to > manas being unagitated, not Atman (though Atmans > non-agitation is > implicit). > > To accept Peter's view that these points about anger > are a > misinterpretation of the gita, and that anger DOES > agitate the mind of > the self-realized, then we would have to accept that > fear and craving > for pleasure also agitate the mind (manas) -- > becasue they are equated > in this quote. Yet, I have not seen Maharishi > exhibit behaviorial > states of fear. Indeed it is said from Upanishads, > quoted often by > Maharishi, that fear is born of duality and that in > Unity no fear can > exist. > > As far as craving for pleasure -- a realized one has > tastes and > preferences, but their mind is not AGITATED when > "pleasure" is absent. > > Experientially, I think most who have some spiritual > practice for some > time, know exactly this feeling /state > experientially. The mind is NOT > "lost" or become agitated or one does not "lose" it > when an obstacle > is presented (source of anger), or when an unknown > situation arises > (source of fear) or when a pleasurable experience is > absent. This is > why the gita talks about a steady-fast mind" or the > realized, or as in > the above quotes, "a sage of steady Prajna". > > So Sparig, while you are correct that Atman is not > disturbed by anger > (fear or craving), also the mind (manas) of the > self-realized is not > agitated and distured, overcome, lost, become > unglued or unfocused by > these things. > > The agitation of the mind, the chaos of the state, > the "losing it" > experience, and the uncontrolled passion of krodha, > are almost the > opposite of the intense, focused searing attention > of a realized or > powerful teacher making a point. Peter's equating > this intense focus > with uncontrolled krodha is superficial and not > worthy of serious > consideration. > > > > > > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Or go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > and click 'Join This Group!' > === message truncated === __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
