TurquoiseB wrote: > * The siddhis, straight out of Patanjali (who was... > Duh...a writer within a religious tradition)... > Patanjali, the author of the Yoga Sutras, said next to nothing about 'religion' - there was no 'Hinduism' at that time (cica 200 BC). From what I've read, there was 'Brahmanism', 'animism', and the atheist sects, Charvaka, etc. But I've seen no evidence that Patanjali was a teacher in a 'religious tradition'. If he was, he would have said so...duh!
Shakya the Muni defined 'enlightenment' as the dispelling of the illusion of the individual soul-monad. Patanjali pretty much agrees with this; Patanjali taught *isolation* of the Purusha from the prakriti by yogic means. Nor, according to Eliade, should you confuse 'shamanism' or 'religion' with the Yoga Tradition of South Asia. "Confusion arises from erroneously identifying words, objects, and ideas with one another; knowledge of the cries of all creatures comes through perfect discipline of the distinctions between them" (Yoga Sutra 3.17). Read more: Author: Willytex Subject: Nescience Forum: alt.meditation.transcendental, alt.religion.gnostic Date: Pril 9, 2005 http://tinyurl.com/8hazo3 > Just to follow up, because this is a fun kind > of "recapitulation" for me, I think that one of > the things you have to remember about my partici- > pation in the TM movement was *when it took place*. > > My last TM course (a six-month course in Switzer- > land to learn the Siddhis) was in 1977. Returning > from that course I paid lip service to the TMO > for a little while, but within a couple of years > I was pretty much "outa there." > > So what was that TM movement environment LIKE, > compared to what it is now? > > This was pre-Chopra. There was no Ayur-veda. This > was pre-SV. This was pre-yagyas. This was WAY pre- > Rajas and their silly costumes. This was WAY pre- > pundits. This was WAY pre-McMeditation outlets > in shopping malls. This was WAY pre-Maharishi > Phalluses Of Invincibility. > > This was, in fact, the end of the blissful SIMS > period of the TMO. The language used was still that > SIMS-speak, substituting scientific-sounding words > for the real Hindu words. Lots of talk about the > research, zero talk about gods and goddesses, even > referred to by their euphemisms as "impulses of > creative intelligence." > > The most religious aspects of the TMO *at that time* > were, in my opinion: > > * The puja, of course. The translation of that, and > the fact that EVERY SINGLE TEACHER knew that > translation, cannot be denied. > > * The siddhis, straight out of Patanjali (who was... > Duh...a writer within a religious tradition). > > * The reading of Rig Veda and the chanting of Sama > Veda after "flying." What is NOT religious about > being forced to sit there and listen to hour after > hour of readings *directly* from the pages of > scripture? > > * The growing status of the TMO as a cult. This was > the period in which "Off The Program" first was > making its appearance, and in which TMers were being > denied permission to go to courses because of life- > style choices they had made, such as living with > their girlfriends outside of marriage, or reading > "Off The Program" books. Look at that last one -- if > you are denied the ability to become a TM Teacher > *because you read a book by another teacher*, as > happened with some frequency back then, what is NOT > religious about that? > > * The growing reclusive nature of many TMers. People > were beginning to NOT "meditate and dive into activity." > They were starting, in fact, to *avoid* activity as > much as possible, and find ways to stay on rounding > courses forever, or to stay in Europe working on staff > forever. This was a trend that I saw as contrary to > what TM was "selling itself" as, and not completely > healthy. I still feel that way. > > * Outright persecution of dissent. That was the biggest > "tell" for me that the organization had "flipped" from > the SIMS days and was well on its way down the slippery > slope towards becoming a full-blown religion. I bailed > before it got far enough down that slope to include > yagyas and pundits and people in Raja costumes *while > claiming it was not a religion*. What inspired me to > bail was noticing how people (both TMers and TM Teachers) > were treated who did not agree with some point of dogma > or some "rule" that had been imposed on them or their > lifestyle. To make a long story short, what happened to > them was that they were EXCOMMUNICATED, sent away, > denied access to the organization completely and > anathemitized to the point that their former friends > were afraid to have anything to do with them. Again, > what is NOT a religion about that? > > Just some points, to remind you of what has happened > in the time SINCE those days. If I was seeing signs of > the TMO being a cult and a religion THEN, it just blows > my mind that people looking at what the TMO has become > in the time SINCE then can't see it. > > But the force of the TM Is Not A Religion Religion > is strong. Once you've become a member of that church, > it's very difficult to leave. Or so it seems... >
