--- Rick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
snip > > It seems that awareness is necessary for thoughts to > happen but > thoughts are not necessary for awareness to happen. Well said. And even the ego or sense of self or "I" is a thought. snip> > > > > --- In [email protected], "authfriend" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > --- In [email protected], "Patrick > Gillam" > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > off_world_beings wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Can anyone advise me on what to do when > > > > > > I am arguing with myself? > > > > > > > > Patrick Gillam wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Eckhart Tolle ... was consumed > > > > > by the thought that he couldn't stand > himself (or a > > > > > sentiment to that effect), which prompted a > follow-up > > > > > thought: if I cannot stand myself, it > suggests there's a > > > > > part of me that's observing that > disagreeableness. > > > > > > > authfriend wrote: > > > > > > > > Wait. The silent aspect of his awareness > > > > was observing his behavior, but was it also > > > > making the judgment that his behavior was > > > > disagreeable? > > > > > > Hmmm. I see what you mean, Judy. How's this: > > > > > > The Witness can discern whether thoughts are > green > > > or grey, pleasant or boorish. Discernment is > different > > > from judging. > > > > I've never been clear how the Witness can > > discern, or discriminate, or differentiate. > > That seems like a mental function to me. > > I thought the Witness just *be's*. > > > > > The key point is, a witness exists. > > > > > > Not having the book here, I can't quote it. But > here's a > > > related thought, from Amazon's peek into _The > Power of Now_: > > > > > > "The beginning of freedom is the realization > that > > > you are not the possessing entity -- the > thinker. > > > Knowing this enables you to observe the > entity. > > > The moment you start *watching the thinker* > > > [emphasis his], a higher level of > consciousness > > > becomes activated." > > > > Mmmm...I'm still confused. > > > > > An aside: the non-judgmentalism of the witnesser > may explain why > > purportedly > > > enlightened people can be assholes. They have no > motivation to > > change because their > > > relative personalities, jerks though they may > be, are fine to > the > > non-judgmental Self. > > > > Well, but their relative personalities might > > engage in self-criticism just as anyone's does. > > > > > As I unpack this notion, I suppose it's wishful > thinking to > ascribe > > Off World's internal > > > arguments to the dynamic Tolle describes. What > about it, Off > World? > > Is your mental dialog > > > nascent awakening, or schizophrenia? > > > > Can it only be either? Most people have mental > > dialogs like this at times. Seems to me Tolle > > bounced off a very common experience to come to > > his realization. What's unsual is what he got > > out of the experience, not the experience itself, > > no? > > > > > - Patrick Gillam > > > > > > P.S. You just have to believe Rumi had some > eloquent poem about > how > > each of us is two > > > people, the thinking mind and the silent witness > who takes it > all > > in. Can anybody here cite > > > such a verse? > > > > No, but here's a famous passage from St. Paul that > > hints at the same dichotomy, albeit expressed as a > > magnificently messy tangle: > > > > For that which I do, I allow not: for what I > would, that do I not; > > but what I hate, that do I. If then I do that > which I would not, I > > consent unto the law that it is good. Now then it > is no more I > that > > do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. For I know > that in me (that > is, > > in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will > is present with > me; > > but how to perform that which is good I find not. > For the good > that I > > would, I do not: but the evil which I would not, > that I do. Now if > I > > do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, > but sin that > > dwelleth in me. > > > > I find then a law, that, when I would do good, > evil is present > with > > me. For I delight in the law of God after the > inward man: but I > see > > another law in my members, warring against the law > of my mind, and > > bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which > is in my > members. > > O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me > from the body of > this > > death? > > > > I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then > with the mind I > > myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh > the law of sin. > > > > --Romans 7:15-24 (KJV) > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Or go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > and click 'Join This Group!' > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > === message truncated === ____________________________________________________ Sell on Yahoo! Auctions no fees. Bid on great items. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
