On Jul 6, 2005, at 12:57 PM, Patrick Gillam wrote:

> Vaj wrote:
>>
>> "is non-ideation" an object of meditation?
>>
>> My feeling is it can be.
>
> What's non-ideation? No mantra, no thought?

Attentional stability with vividness, no laxity and pure mindfulness 
might be a description to use. In general terms it is just a calm state 
meditation, like TM, Shamatha, etc.

>
>> In some schools of meditation, once the calm state is achieved,
>> recognized and made stable, we move on to integrating thought with 
>> calm
>> and then eventually simply experiencing thoughts and movement as
>> non-dual.
>
> In "some schools"? I thought the description above
> applied to everything we talk abut here.

IMO, no. Many forms of meditation deal with just the first method and 
state described: the calm state, the "transcendent", etc. I guess one 
might say the TMSP begins to work at integration of thought and 
emptiness.



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