--- In [email protected], "Llundrub" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > person again and again one begins to wonder why one answered in the 
> > first place. Yes I was initiated into TMĀ© Judy way back in 1974...I 
> was 
> > 15 at the time...TTC not until the early 80's...
> 
> I'm sorry to hear that.  If you did in fact ever
> learn and practice TM, you're the poster boy for
> the need for checking, because you've forgotten
> just about everything in the oral driver's manual
> you spoke of.
> 
> 
> ------Actually, until you have taken Dzogchen teachings you really 
can't speak on effortlessness, surrender, or simplicity.

Never have,but how much more effortless is Dzogchen than sitting and 
closing one's eyes for a moment and noticing 20 or 30 minutes later 
that you've been meditating all along without realizing it?




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