------no, no, Vaj. There's no meditation that immediately produces non-dualistic awareness. If that were so, people would meditate once and be Buddhas overnight. The non-dualism (CC) is in a natural progression, found in any tradition. The same progression exits among students of your Guru Norbu Rinpoche. If he were a great Guru, he'd have more than a few hundred followers. The non-dualism (as WillyTex points out ) is in the viewpoint, the philosophical orientation. The progression (TC,....CC....GC....) exists as a descriptive map of what people experience, not what they are ULTIMATELY to attain as a goal. The fact that Norbu and the Dzogchen practitioners evade describing the progressive attainments doesn't eliminate these experiences from occurring in their students. Thus, MMY's orientation is closer to the "real" situation; even considering that there really is no effective 5-7 year plan.
In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, WillyTex <no_re...@...> wrote: > > > > What you need to understand, Zoran, is that we are > > > talking about non-theistic Vedanta. In non-dualistic > > > (Adwaita) Vedanta, the Creator is not the ultimate > > > reality, so TMers aren't very concerned with the > > > names or nicknames of the Devas, Gods or deified > > > heroes of Hindu mythology. > > > > Vaj wrote: > > You seem really confused. TM is not nondual Vedantic > > contemplation (nididhyanasana). > > > You're the confused one, Vaj, you have not even > offered up a definition of 'Vedanta'. > > According to David Frawley, "Maharishi Mahesh > Yogi's Transcendental Meditation follows a Vedantic > view of consciousness and cosmic evolution" > (Frawley 4). > > > In fact the four levels of nididhyanasana are not > > even taught in the TM movement Willy. Didn't you > > know that you were to question what the guru says? > > Otherwise confusion like this ends up making you > > look like a babbling idiot... > > > Well, I don't think Pandit David Frawley is a 'babbling > idiot' and I dare say he knows more about Adwaita > Vedanta. > > > Didn't you realize that TM is a dualistic form of > > meditation? That's why it produces a > > witness-consciousness. It's a shame when this kinda > > thing happens to poor TMers, but I gotta tell you, > > it is pretty funny! > > > Yeah, it's funny all right, but I wonder how funny > you'd sound to David Frawley! > > "An acknowledged Vedantin, Frawley is an expert in > ayurveda, Vedic astrology, yoga, and tantra, all of > which, he says, have their basis in Vedanta..." > > Read more: > > 'Indology' > by Suma Varughese > Life Positive, May 2002 > http://tinyurl.com/me2uwl <http://tinyurl.com/me2uwl> > > Work cited: > > 'Vedantic Meditation: Lighting the Flame of Awareness' > by David Frawley > North Atlantic Books, 2000 > > Other comments of interst: > > "The TM bija mantras are found in the Vedic > literature, revealed to the rishis by Lord > Dhanvantari, then Acharya Shree, Brahmanand > Saraswati, gave all the bija mantras to Marshy > for our enjoyment. Then the sage Vedavyasa > attached the Mân.d.ûkya Upanis.ad. to the > Atharva Veda and the Brahma Sutras to the > Vedanta. Our root guru, Sri Gaudapada then > made comments on the Omkara in > Mandukhyakarika. And, we have the > Soundaryalahari, which was composed by > the Adi, for our understanding..." > > Read more: > > From: Willytex > Subject: The TMer Tradition > Newsgroups: alt.meditation.transcendental > Date: January 6, 2006 > http://tinyurl.com/l2bwnx <http://tinyurl.com/l2bwnx> > > "In fact, the origin of TM is none other than > the Adi Shankara himself, as stated by > Acharya Sri in his Sutrabhyasa, in his > Soundaryalahari, and in his sub-commentary > on the Vivarna of Veda Vyasa on Patanjali's > Yoga Sutras..." > > Read more: > > From: Willytex > Subject: The TMer Point of View > Newsgroups: alt.meditation.transcendental > Date: October 22, 2005 > http://tinyurl.com/ls4nlo <http://tinyurl.com/ls4nlo> >
