On Jul 13, 2005, at 9:22 PM, akasha_108 wrote: > --- In [email protected], Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> On Jul 13, 2005, at 6:32 PM, akasha_108 wrote: >> >>> A western christian telling a muslim that they have "embraced a > false theology and a god" does not solve ANYTHING. Just as white civil > rights workers in the early 60's were bright and educated > students who, if they wished, could be productive and prosperous > members of suburban America. But they were shocked and dismayed at the > state of civil rights in the south, were pissed off, and risked > careers, life and limb to do something about it. Why is it so hard to > imagine idealistic muslims doing the same. >> >> But it does highlight one particular point that is deliberately >> avoided > due to political correctness and absolutely avoided by all politicians > and that is that the basis of this IS religious. A good Muslim has a > number of things they are required to do, an one of those is Jihad. > ...Jihad can mean if you I or anyone else says anything deemed > blasphemous--we can be killed and it is perfectly lawful! > > Your point is ambiguous to me. > > "Can" is the operative word. I hope you are not saying all muslims > must kill you.
No I seriously doubt all Muslims would want to kill you. As I mentioned there are a range of ideas on what Jihad means. An important question I had in discussions with both Muslims and Sufis was 'what would the majority support?' In other words your average Muslim most certainly would not want to kill someone for blasphemy--but would the majority support someone else doing it? You'd be surprised at the answers out there. I remember my own shock--largely due to the PC images the media was feeding us--when I found out that there were huge celebrations across Saudia Arabia and the Arab world after 9/11. Anyone who had a pig slaughtered it. Whole cities celebrated death. I had to struggle to put my mind around that. I couldn't recall much like that elsewhere. And none of it was covered in the mainstream media (till 60 Minutes did their article). > That extremity of jihad interpretations is far from the > mainstream position of muslims world wide. As I remeber, jihad means > struggle. it has many levels of application. Struggle against sin is a > common one. It is--but even the most conservative must consider Jihad an important item. For some that might mean conversion a la Christian style conversion, for others it might means invasion. For another it might mean following the Quaranic injunction to 'lay and wait for the infidel' and to immigrate to another country and just lay and wait. Different people lay and wait for different things. > > So if you believe (I hope not) that ALL muslims must kill you if > you do ANYthing that is deemed against qu'aranic law, then .. well its > hard to comment on such a mindset. No, see the above. The pint is, Jihad is a basic tenet and that a majoirty of Muslim will support and celebrate much more than we've been led to believe. My first reality check on this was the Navy's ex-liason to the Saudi Royal family who is a personal friend. He lived in Saudi Arabia for many years and shared both his love of the culture and the utter horrors. And as a navy Admiral he was privy to a lot of material I only later found out knowing what to look for. > > >> That's what happened to that >> descendent of Van Gogh who did the movie on abuse of Islamic women: > he was stabbed in the heart in public and his throat slit. Perfectly > legal because he was a blasphemer. > > So I hope youare not saying that this criminal behavior is supported > by and would also be enacted by most muslims. We can both paint any > number of odd christian or jewish events. or Hindu events. Does the > fact that David Koresh or Rev Jones did what they did mean in any way > many or all christians support such and would do the same? It is enacted by a minority, but supported by far more than I would have suspected. > >> To another Jihad means you have to convert >> people--some think that means the whole world must be converted and it >> their job to see that this is done--some feel that means "convert or >> die". > > So many have died due to christian evangelism. I see islam and muslims > as being quite less evangelical than christians. A muslim hss never > tried to convert me. And I have actually sought out learning asbout > Islam from them. It's true, Christianity is and has been horribly barbaric. I've also talked to a fairly large swath of Muslims and also Sufis, Hindus and Buddhists. > >> This is nothing new, this has been happening since Islam started. >> Remember the Sabians? > > Your point is unclear. Extreme christian evangelicism has been > happening since 1 AD. Its sad. Its scary, but its not mainsteam > christianity (though fundamentalist christianity is growing and is > scary). Reading about the Sabians was a mindfuck to come across, as it was something that happened a long time ago but was so chillingly relevant today. Whole towns being threatened with extermination if they did not convert. The bizarre aside to that is that the remaining Neoplatonic Sabian heirs are, as we speak being assassinated and murdered in Iraq--they are considered Kaffirs. It will be amazing if this unique religion survives. I wrote the secretary of state and left messages on his voice mail to support immigration of these people to the US as instability caused by the US threatened to assure there utter destruction. > >> All the places Islam has spread has one thing in common--it is part > of a vast area of the planet where years ago huge climactic shifts > caused deserts. > > Well, I guess you have never been to Indonesia. Or southern > Phillipines. Or Malaysia. Or much or southern coastal Africa. Or read > much. Yes, indeed I have. If you get a chance, check out http://www.orgonelab.org/saharasia.htm Look at the maps. It's certainly not just Muslims, but it is a shocking picture. This was all pre-9/11 research. > >> Starvation ensued. A lifestyle arose from this highly >> (muscular) armored seed culture totally at odds with their own >> life-current. This is what starvation does to a human, but it's also >> what happens when that imprint becomes part of human society and their >> taboos, rituals and practices. These same areas are where male and >> female genital mutilation was born and is still practiced. Also tight >> swaddling of children to prevent crying, etc., binding of the skull, >> etc. >> >> Thus there is a bioenergetic core and cause to this IMO. This type of >> movement thrives on prana depleted areas. > > > Wow, again I hope you are not extrapolating this stuff to all muslims. > I feel a lot of wierd hate vibes in your writing. I hope I am mis > interpreting it. It sounds like you might be. I've been in a position to talk to a lot of people on this--from Jewish friends in Europe who've been affected to numerous scholars, Muslims, etc. I looked at India real close and the huge genocide that had taken place there (75 million people or more). I talked to the commander of ground troops in Bosnia who has also recently returned from Afghanistan. I simply have made a point to not accept answers for their "feel good" qualities or any need to be politically correct. I wanted to know the big picture. > Do you know much about islamic history. The state of islamic culture > in 800-1400 or so? It lead the world. Have you visited the mosques and > palaces in india. The Taj Mahal? All Islamic architect ure. Its > fabulous, and clearly from a deep culture of art and beauty. Yes I am fairly familiar with it as it overlapped a lot of research I and my fellow researchers have worked on over the years. I've had a lot of exposure to it, esp. in regards to architecture. You do realize that much innovation did come after the Indian invasion and we now know a lot was transmitted from China. The Arabs were great transmitters of innovation and occasionally innovators themselves. For example the city of Baghdad was actually designed by Indian architects. There were even Sanskrit universities in Mesopotamia. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
