That's my understanding as well. What I was saying earlier is the fate of Jews at the time of his return. When Messiah stops the total destruction of the Earth, he will be recognized by the Jews as Messiah and he will reveal to them that he is Jesus by showing them the scars in his hands, feet and side, just as Joseph revealed his true identity to his brothers by showing them that he was circumcised. None of this changes the concept of the *suffering servant* who takes away the sins of the world. If one's sins have not been removed, he can not enter the Kingdom of Heaven whether he is Jew or Gentile. OTOH if one doesn't believe in sin, what does it matter? BTW the Lake of Fire sentencing is supposed to be at the end of creation, the time of final judgment. None of this can be proved or disproved, it's all a matter of faith. What one can do, if interested, is learn the prophesies and watch to see if they come true. When the disciples came to Jesus and asked him when all these things will come to pass, he said *learn the parable of the fig tree. When it buds, know that that generation will not pass before all these things must come true.* The fig tree represents Israel, founded May 15th 1948, the generation of the baby boomers. Time will tell.
________________________________ From: do.rflex <do.rf...@yahoo.com> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, May 15, 2010 3:13:21 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerusalem Forever --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Mike Dixon <mdixon.6...@...> wrote: > > As I said, all prophecy is a matter of faith until it happens. Your original > question was *what happens to the Jews that don't accept Christ?* I > explained, from a prophetic point of view, what is supposed to happen. The > Bible is full of prophecies from Genesis to Revelation of the coming of > Messiah. I'm not going to bother to look each statement up and give you > book, chapter and verse, it would take too much of my time and would fall on > deaf ears anyway( fable written by a primitive desert tribe). Most of what > I've replied to you is found in Genesis, Revelation and the writings of Paul. > I'll be the first to admit, I could be wrong in my understanding, but from > what I've learned in recent years, it sure makes more since than the > Replacement theology taught for so long, which would make God a liar in his > own words. As for what anybody chooses to believe, that's their business, not > mine. I simply answered your original question based on my understanding > of prophecies. > Thanks for sharing 'your' understanding. It's quite apparent that other Christians, particularly from the Christian Right, have their own very different understandings/interpretations. 'My' understanding from the Christian fundamentalists is generally that anyone who doesn't accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior, is headed for the not-so-fun-at-all 'Lake of Fire' described in the Book of Revelation. > ________________________________ > From: do.rflex <do.rf...@...> > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sat, May 15, 2010 12:54:11 PM > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerusalem Forever > >  > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Mike Dixon <mdixon.6569@> wrote: > > > > I don't doubt that is what Uri Avnery believes, as most Jews > > believe, because that is what most Christian theologians believed and > > have been teaching for two thousand years. It's called *replacement > > theology*,Christians believed they replace the Jews as the *chosen > > people*. However, times and thinking have changed dramatically in recent > > decades since the *fig tree* has begun to bud.Christians have been dropping > > replacement theology like a hot potato because it is not Biblical. Again, > > read, better yet, study the story of Joseph, it is all there in far > > greater detail than I could possibly go into here. Joseph, betrayed by his > > brothers, saves the day for all of them, just as Christ saves the day for > > all the Jews, not just Jewish believers, from total destruction. > > > > Who's to say all of that is anything more than a thousands of years old fable > written by someone from a primitive desert tribe you've interpreted to > comform to your own present day personal Christianist views, Mike? > > > > At that time, the Jews will accept him as their messiah, not knowing it is > Jesus until he reveals the scars in his hands, feet and side, > > > > Where does it say that in the Bible, Mike? > >  just as Joseph revealed his circumcision to prove he was > > his brother's brother.At that time, the *scales* that blinded the eyes of > > the Jewish people to the identity of Christ, as it did with Saul of Tarsus, > > will be removed and there will be a great healing/ awakening between > > Christ, the church and the Jewish people, as it was when Joseph revealed > > his true identity to his brothers. > > > > Where is this comparison of scales being removed from the eyes of the Jewish > people to be found in the Bible, Mike? > > < John , you're still thinking in old, out dated, theological teaching, > regarding the Christian faith, as many still do. The Bible teaches that when > the Messiah comes, Jews and Gentiles will be united together as one. > > > > Where in the Bible does it clearly and specifically indicate that, "when the > Messiah comes, Jews and Gentiles will be united together as one?" > > Who's to say YOUR views are right and other Christian's views are wrong? > > And... What if the Jews don't buy your personal interpretation of the Bible? > Do you think they don't or won't have free choice? What do the Christianists > say is going to happen to the Jews - or anyone else - who doesn't accept > Jesus as their Savior? > > > > The Gentiles will be grafted into the tree of Abraham through the church. Of > course, until it all happens, it is a matter of faith. > > __ > > ______________________________ > > From: do.rflex <do.rflex@> > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Sat, May 15, 2010 8:11:11 AM > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerusalem Forever > > > >  > > > > > > The fate of the Jews: > > > > Uri Avnery, is the leader of Gush Shalom, an Israeli peace group. He was > > discussing the theology of many Fundamentalist and other Evangelical > > Christians in a 2002-JUN essay, and wrote: > > > > "According to its theological beliefs, the Jews must congregate in > > Palestine and establish a Jewish state on all its territory so as to make > > the Second Coming of Jesus Christ possible... > > > > the evangelists don't like to dwell openly on what comes next: > > > > before the coming [of the Messiah], the Jews must convert to Christianity. > > Those who don't will perish in a gigantic holocaust in the battle of > > Armageddon. This is basically an anti-Semitic teaching..." 1 > > > > This teaching implies that Jews who remain true to God's covenants in the > > Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament) will be all exterminated in a massive > > genocide that may be more numerous than the Nazi Holocaust. > > > > http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_isra.htm > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sgrayatlarge <no_reply@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > You might like this article by Dennis Prager on the Genesis prediction > > > and Israel and why conservative christians believe in a strong Israel: > > > > > > http://tiny.cc/pxnx5 > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Mike Dixon <mdixon.6569@> wrote: > > > > > > > > If your question is serious, read the story of Joseph in Genesis. Then > > > > substitute Jesus for Joseph and Joseph's brothers for the Jewish > > > > people, (really the Pharisees). Many students of prophecy believe that > > > > the Old Testament is the truth concealed and the New Testament is the > > > > Truth revealed. Both stories parallel each other very closely. Example, > > > > Joseph is sold into slavery by his jealous brothers for 30 pieces of > > > > silver. Joseph is falsely accused and thrown in prison but rises up to > > > > sit at the right hand of Pharaoh. Joseph's brothers realize and confess > > > > their sin against their father and brother. Joseph forgives them, > > > > seeing the greater divine plan, then brings his whole family into > > > > Egypt, saving them from famine and death, where they enjoy great > > > > prosperity. > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > From: do.rflex <do.rflex@> > > > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Sent: Fri, May 14, 2010 3:52:37 PM > > > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerusalem Forever > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John" <jr_esq@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > This is the reason why this city could be the cause of Armageddon, > > > > > the next world war. It is likely that the US would be on the side of > > > > > Israel since there are still fundamentalist Christians who believe > > > > > that this war will be between the forces of good and evil, thus > > > > > leading to the Second Coming of Christ and the Rapture. > > > > > > > > > > > > > What do these fundamentalist Christians say is going to happen to the > > > > Jews who don't accept Jesus as their Savior? > > > > > > > > > Also, there is a fairly strong Jewish influence in the US which will > > > > > lobby the politicians to support the Israeli cause. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sgrayatlarge <no_reply@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I expect squirming from the usual suspects > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_YPKnXi10M > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
