--- In [email protected], "Rory Goff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> --- In [email protected], "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
<snip>
> > Basically, for someone who is realized
>
> Who is saying he is realized? Kill him! Scatter him to the winds!
> :-)
>
> >to say
> > something to someone in ignorance
>
> Who is saying she is in ignorance? Kill her! Scatter her to the
> winds! :-)
>
> >that suggests
> > it's somehow their *fault* that they're still
> > in ignorance, that they could turn it around in
> > an instant if they would only pull up their
> > socks, is hurtful. To tell them they're not
> > really overshadowed, they just *imagine* they
> > are, is hurtful. To treat their reality as
> > any less real to them than what the realized
> > person experiences as his or her reality is
> > hurtful.
>
> Yes, I can certainly see how all that would feel hurtful, Judy.
> FWIW I have not intended to imply *fault* or lay *blame* on you, as
> I see nothing to blame you *for*.
I know you haven't, Rory. Try this: add the words "to
them" (i.e., to the unrealized person) following "that
suggests" to the quote above.
That's where empathy comes in: recognizing that while
you don't *intend* something you say that way, it's
likely to be *taken* that way by the person you're
talking to. That's what I meant by "treading
carefully."
<snip>
> I have no idea of what another is "really" feeling in themselves --
> only how s/he feels *in me*. As such, s/he is always my perfect
> mirror :-)
I don't really know what that means, but it doesn't
sound like what I mean by "empathy."
> > It really feels like someone with great big
> > muddy hobnailed boots trampling on one's
> > very tenderest, most vulnerable feelings.
>
> Yes, I can certainly see how this would be quite painful. You have
> my deepest sympathies; heart-pain really sucks.
>
> It would appear that if we are to avoid heart-pain in the future,
> something has to change.
>
> As you are unlikely to be able to get everyone around you to
> change,
But maybe one person here and there?
> you may have to settle for changing yourself -- for
> changing your "story" of what is really going on.
>
> If you actually want to heal, some Byron Katie-practice ("Loving
> What Is") might be very helpful here. When we find ourselves upset
> or pained by a particular thought (e.g. perhaps "People shouldn't
> trample on my feelings with hobnail boots")
That's not it. The thought is, "That hurts. I am
in pain. I don't want to be in pain."
That's not a "story," that's a visceral response.
My next thought is, "This person isn't saying what
they said to hurt me. They didn't realize they were
trampling on my feelings with hobnail boots." (That's
*my* empathy kicking in. I sure hope that isn't just
a "story.")
And my impulse is to tell them what it felt like,
not to make *them* feel bad, but so they understand
the effect it had, assuming they will want to avoid
hurting someone else in the future. (I'm not alone
in having these feelings, for the record.)
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