--- In [email protected], "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
Rory wrote:
> > Yes, I can certainly see how all that would feel hurtful, Judy.
> > FWIW I have not intended to imply *fault* or lay *blame* on you,
as
> > I see nothing to blame you *for*.
>
> I know you haven't, Rory. Try this: add the words "to
> them" (i.e., to the unrealized person) following "that
> suggests" to the quote above.
>
> That's where empathy comes in: recognizing that while
> you don't *intend* something you say that way, it's
> likely to be *taken* that way by the person you're
> talking to. That's what I meant by "treading
> carefully."
I see. I guess I have no empathy left then, as you define it. I did
spend many years attempting to second-guess how others might feel
and "tread carefully" around other people's wounds, and I just can't
do it anymore. It didn't do any good anyway. The
anger/pain/betrayal/blame remained, regardless of what I did or did
not do in attempting to avoid triggering it. :-)
>
> <snip>
> > I have no idea of what another is "really" feeling in
themselves --
> > only how s/he feels *in me*. As such, s/he is always my perfect
> > mirror :-)
>
> I don't really know what that means, but it doesn't
> sound like what I mean by "empathy."
No, that is "cessation of pain" :-)
> > > It really feels like someone with great big
> > > muddy hobnailed boots trampling on one's
> > > very tenderest, most vulnerable feelings.
> >
> > Yes, I can certainly see how this would be quite painful. You
have
> > my deepest sympathies; heart-pain really sucks.
> >
> > It would appear that if we are to avoid heart-pain in the
future,
> > something has to change.
> >
> > As you are unlikely to be able to get everyone around you to
> > change,
>
> But maybe one person here and there?
Maybe so -- but I have never found combing the mirror to be
particularly useful if I really want to get my hair in order :-)
> > you may have to settle for changing yourself -- for
> > changing your "story" of what is really going on.
> >
> > If you actually want to heal, some Byron Katie-practice ("Loving
> > What Is") might be very helpful here. When we find ourselves
upset
> > or pained by a particular thought (e.g. perhaps "People
shouldn't
> > trample on my feelings with hobnail boots")
>
> That's not it. The thought is, "That hurts. I am
> in pain. I don't want to be in pain."
>
> That's not a "story," that's a visceral response.
Yes, the pain is a visceral response. Created by what story, though?
IOW, what was the idea we entertained that hurt us in the first
place?
> My next thought is, "This person isn't saying what
> they said to hurt me. They didn't realize they were
> trampling on my feelings with hobnail boots." (That's
> *my* empathy kicking in. I sure hope that isn't just
> a "story.")
>
> And my impulse is to tell them what it felt like,
> not to make *them* feel bad, but so they understand
> the effect it had, assuming they will want to avoid
> hurting someone else in the future. (I'm not alone
> in having these feelings, for the record.)
Of course you're not. :-)
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