--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shanti2218411" <kc21d@...> wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Xenophaneros Anartaxius" anartaxius@ wrote: however these weird quantum effects have also been observed or recorded by machinery, which we presume is not conscious, at least not in any way like us, and we only find out what the machine recorded sometime after the fact, our consciousness having not been involved in the actual perception of the event, until long after. Actually(and I could be wrong!) I believe that the Bohr et al model (the copenhagen interpretation)would assert that all the possible recordings that the machine could have made are themselves in a superposition state prior to someone (i.e. a conscious observer) checking what the machine said no matter how long the duration of time that has passed since the recording.When a conscious observer does check the probability wave collapses and one possible outcome comes into existence.(most likely the one that is most probable).In this analysis(at least as I understand it) consciousness is considered to be in some sense separate from material reality and thus not part of the probability wave(which is why it collapses?).A recent proponent of this perspective is Robert Lanza in the book "Biocentrism"
I believe that the reason many physicists do not like this model is that it undermines the notion of physical reality being objectively real ,independent of observation .Probably the most favored model is the many worlds hypothesis which preserves objective reality but does so by postulating that there maybe virtually an infinite number of universes. Fortunately I spend most of my time on very macroscopic scales and do not have to deal with QM in either a technical or conceptual manner. Here is the Wikipedia list of QM interpretations. See if it reproduces the table on this forum (probably won't work in text-only emails) [it is also interesting in this table that the Copenhagen interpretation has a collapsing wave function but the observer is stated as having no role, only the von Neumann interpretation has consciouness in an active role in the collapse of the wave function.] [When I pasted this chart into the forum software, two additional columns on the right showed that were not visible in the Wikipedia; perhaps they are being edited, as they seem incomplete.] InterpretationAuthor(s)Deterministic? </wiki/Determinism> Wavefunction real?Unique history?Hidden variables </wiki/Hidden_variable_theory> ?Collapsing wavefunctions? </wiki/Wavefunction_collapse> Observer role?Local </wiki/Locality_principle> ?Counterfactual definiteness </wiki/Counterfactual_definiteness> ?Ensemble interpretation </wiki/Ensemble_Interpretation> Max Born </wiki/Max_Born> , 1926AgnosticNoYesAgnosticNoNoneCopenhagen interpretation </wiki/Copenhagen_interpretation_of_quantum_mechanics> Niels Bohr </wiki/Niels_Bohr> , Werner Heisenberg </wiki/Werner_Heisenberg> , 1927NoNo1 <#endnote_note1> YesNoYes2 <#endnote_note1> NoneNoNode Broglie-Bohm theory </wiki/De_Broglie-Bohm_theory> Louis de Broglie </wiki/Louis_de_Broglie> , 1927, David Bohm </wiki/David_Bohm> , 1952YesYes3 <#endnote_note3> Yes4 <#endnote_note4> YesNoNoneNoYesvon Neumann interpretation </wiki/Interpretation_of_quantum_mechanics#von_Neumann.2FWigner_interpre\ tation:_consciousness_causes_the_collapse> von Neumann </wiki/Von_Neumann> , 1932, Wheeler </wiki/John_Archibald_Wheeler> , Wigner </wiki/Eugene_Wigner> NoYesYesNoYesCausalNoNoQuantum logic </wiki/Quantum_logic> Garrett Birkhoff </wiki/Garrett_Birkhoff> , 1936AgnosticAgnosticYes5 <#endnote_note5> NoNoInterpretational6 <#endnote_note6> Many-worlds interpretation </wiki/Many-worlds_interpretation> Hugh Everett </wiki/Hugh_Everett> , 1957YesYesNoNoNoNoneYesNoTime-symmetric theoriesYakir Aharonov </wiki/Yakir_Aharonov> , 1964YesYesYesYesNoNoStochastic interpretation </wiki/Stochastic_interpretation> Edward Nelson </wiki/Edward_Nelson> , 1966NoNoYesNoNoNoneNoNoMany-minds interpretation </wiki/Many-minds_interpretation> H. Dieter Zeh </wiki/H._Dieter_Zeh> , 1970YesYesNoNoNoInterpretational7 <#endnote_note7> YesNoConsistent histories </wiki/Consistent_histories> Robert B. Griffiths </wiki/Robert_B._Griffiths> , 1984Agnostic8 <#endnote_note8> Agnostic8 <#endnote_note8> NoNoNoInterpretational6 <#endnote_note6> YesNoObjective collapse theories </wiki/Objective_collapse_theory> Ghirardi-Rimini-Weber </wiki/Ghirardi-Rimini-Weber_theory> , 1986NoYesYesNoYesNoneNoNoTransactional interpretation </wiki/Transactional_interpretation> John G. Cramer </wiki/John_G._Cramer> , 1986NoYesYesNoYes9 <#endnote_note9> NoneRelational interpretation </wiki/Relational_quantum_mechanics> Carlo Rovelli </wiki/Carlo_Rovelli> , 1994NoYesAgnostic10 <#endnote_note10> NoYes11 <#endnote_note11> Intrinsic12 <#endnote_note12> So perhaps Feynman's comment to the effect that we really can't understand quantum mechanics rules the day. When I meditate, I never think about stuff like is on this chart, if I have thoughts that is. With regard to the TMO, I think it is always wise to check alternate sources of information on these subjects.
