Total joy includes everything, all polarities. The fact that tart is all joy, wonder, bliss in his posts and then goes all Gandhi, MLK at the first sign of conflict shows that it's just intellectual deception like you - that you get attracted to him shows that pain and misery always needs company. Why isn't name calling part of this joy, wonder and bliss? I go into tremendous states of joy and also pain, I enjoy both - I don't reject either. When the heart is open, sensitive and receptive - both states, all polarities are experienced with the same intensity, nothing is rejected. That's why I love the bipolar label so much - the manic state resembles the intense joy, joy of just being alive, the depressive state resembling the intense pain you feel as if you are sharing the whole world's burden. However Tart has these beautiful posts on joy, wonder and bliss and then he seems to highly uncomfortable with conflict - it's quite clear this is all his mental imagination, he is striving hard for it - nothing wrong with it, but he doesn't get, he doesn't quite get that ultimate joy is rejoicing in opposites - there is no conflict. Anyway you make good partners - partners in pain, partners in infantile pain. Thank god Tart doesn't indulge in lies, deception, and bully/victim BS like you.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb <no_reply@...> wrote: > > Tart, I'm going to forego commenting on your post, because > it stands on its own as the wisdom it is, and I have nothing > to add. Instead, I'll comment on the strangeness of us both > having seemingly arrived, via our disparate paths, at the > same basic realization about life. > > From my point of view, and seemingly from yours, life is > essentially Joy. Period. In theory, it should not matter > who or what you're looking at or focusing on; Joy is all > there is to be seen, or appreciated. > > I find it fascinating sometimes that those who profess to > be "spiritual" get off on pronouncing that Joy and the Light > of life can only be found by focusing on the things they see > it in, or in doing the things they do. I find it wherever I > look, and I'm getting the strong feeling that you do, too. > > What theoretical "higher" state of consciousness can rival > a good sunset? What supposedly "higher" Gandharva Veda chant > can rival the sound of a child's laughter? What future goal > can rival the majesty and wonder of Now? Does not compute. > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_reply@ wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "whynotnow7" <whynotnow7@> wrote: > > > > > > Bozotronic Barry is here to enlighten us that > > > > >the goal of self realization is a manufactured addiction. > > > > First, do you see self-realization as a goal? I make a large distinction between goals an outcomes. The ball rolls down the hill, according to the path of least resistance, and reaches the bottom of the hill (valley). Was it the ball's goal to reach that certain spot in the valley? Not in my view. The ball just did what came naturally, and found itself at its landing spot in the valley. No goal at all. > > > > In roughly parallel fashion, the process of the unfoldment of outer layers of dross to reveal the joy of Existence everywhere (which I believe you use the label "self-realization" to describe) does not appear to be a goal of life, but rather a natural, unavoidable outcome of life. (Thats a macro view, the micro view is similar -- "self-realization" is a natural, unavoidable, outcome of ones life(s). > > > > The outcome is not pre-destined (in Calvinistic sense). One is not elected by God to heaven (and others are not eternally damned). It is all propelled by the nature of life to seek greater happiness/fulfillment/satisfaction. And this is another one of MMY's most powerful and concise sutras (Live all ten or so of these powerful short sentence sutras and all will be given unto thee.) Ironically, its a random process. Like he ball, you can't predict its every twist and turn down the hill. But it is inevitable that it will eventually reach the valley 9the state of least excitation, the cessations of fluctuations.) > > > > I can see how people at the top of th hill may say, "My goal is to roll to the bottom of the hill". That does not make it a legitimate goal (as in there were choice involved to fulfill the goal or not). its like a kid saying "its my goal to grow to be an adult". Goal it up all you want kid, its gonna happen whether you goal it, reject it or ignore it. > > > > "Self-Realization" the unfoldment, not the label, is manufactured, in a sense, into the blueprint of th universe -- the natural tendency of life to flow words satisfaction an happiness. (Turq has revealed some uncanny wisdom here. ) > > > > > > > > > He exclaims that he is firmly in control and dammit he's going to stay that way, firmly in charge, firmly in control, and firmly deluded (oh, and very, very, very special). > > > > > > > As a taoist a heart, I sense that Turq does not feel that he is in control of anything. (tho it appears that he does like to play with cause and effect. "hey kid, pull my fingers". The result is always the same. Teak someone here, they react over there. Not that I am a fan of tweaking.) > > > > > > > Enjoy yourself Bozo, > > > > I never have gotten the name calling. Ah, but you are a fan of labels. :) how does disparaging name calling come out of the field of the Pure Joy of Existence? > > > > >while the rest of us enjoy the state of complete freedom > > > > freedom not to name call? > > > > > > >and get on with our lives. I'll be checking wikipedia regularly though for that article extolling you alone as have discovered a truth which has eluded all of the great teachers and saints throughout history. LOL. :-) > > > > > > > He has! As has everyone. Unique Truth is revealed by everyone in the context of their lives. Why do you think the One (appeared to have) created the many. (You must have missed Shiva's last satsang -- he gave a beautiful transmission on this very point.) > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb <no_reply@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Having noticed that one of the most classic cult tactics > > > > has been trotted out lately, I'll comment on it. > > > > > > > > That's where someone who has heavily invested in a goal > > > > or set of goals sold to them by a cult or religious trad- > > > > ition reacts to those who challenge the value or worth of > > > > those goals by trying to suggest that those doing the > > > > challenging have somehow "failed" in their own spiritual > > > > quest. > > > > Thats the tragedy (and comedy) of getting wrapped up in labels (like self realization). "My label is better than your label!" "You are not living your label, but I am living my label, you tainted twit-brained tamasic devil you" > > .. > > > > > > The dynamic and intent of this cult technique is "preach- > > > > ing to the already converted." It can be synopsized as, > > > > "Pay no attention to that person who is suggesting that > > > > the 'goal' you've been trained to pursue as the 'highest' > > > > goal in life might not be. He or she is only saying that > > > > because they've 'failed' in pursuing the goal themselves. > > > > Ignore their suggestions that 'seeking enlightenment' is > > > > a lot like getting hooked on heroin, and keep shooting up." > > > > > > And such scams only work when people have deluded themselves into thinking that there are achievable goals (that is that one achieves things by grit and determination, like Indiana Jones as chela, and that self-realization is a goal. > > > > > > > > > > I've suggested several times on this forum that I think > > > > that the supposed "need" to become enlightened is very > > > > much a "manufactured need." > > > > By the blueprint of life itself. The natural tendency for life to seek greater satisfaction and happiness. > > > > > That is, no one was ever born > > > > feeling as if they either wanted to or "had to" become > > > > enlightened. That idea and that "goal" was SOLD to them, > > > > in almost every case by someone also SELLING the means > > > > to attain it. > > > > "Step right up here Mr Ball. The only goal in life is to get down into the valley. its a very tricky thing to do. However, I will show you the way." > > > > > > > > > > What I think is going on when this particular "Keep shoot- > > > > ing up the spiritual heroin" technique is trotted out is > > > > that people whose entire identity and self worth is based > > > > on being either a seeker or a "finder" > > > > One becomes a seeker or finder when they buy into the illusion of goals and effort. one becomes a liver when they flow with life and nauturally find themselves at the bottom of the valley. One of life's greatest jokes is the wise man cartoons, the enlightened being sitting on the mountain top. Its very funny when one realizes its the valley where all the people of wisdom are -- having rolled down the mountain effortlessly. > > > > > > of this manufact- > > > > ured need are afraid that those who question its value > > > > and worth might get some people to think about the fact > > > > that it *was* sold to them, and they bought it hook, line > > > > and sinker (or, more appropriately, baggie, syringe, and > > > > needle). Worse, they might start to wonder if it really > > > > IS the "highest goal" they were told it is. > > > > > > > > So they take the "preaching to the converted" approach, > > > > trying to appeal to elitism. They stop talking directly > > > > to the critics or questioners themselves, and focus their > > > > efforts on the lurkers. They attempt to build (or draw > > > > upon) a kind of group camaraderie with their fellow > > > > spiritual junkies, and urge them to put on a "them vs. > > > > us" mentality with regard to the critics. The technique > > > > is to try to appeal to the egos of their fellow junkies > > > > and tell them how important and how "right" they are > > > > to devote their lives to pursuing this manufactured need > > > > that they think they "need." They basically parrot the > > > > same words of the teachers or salespeople who originally > > > > sold the goal to them: "*We* know the truth. The highest > > > > goal is to spend one's life pursuing enlightenment. Every- > > > > thing else is lesser. Similarly, the highest people on > > > > the planet are those who believe as we believe and do as > > > > we do. Everyone else is either ignorant, or worse, for > > > > those who have analyzed the "need" and found that it > > > > wasn't one they felt was worth pursuing, a 'failure.'" > > > > > > > > From my side, I have at no time -- on this forum or on > > > > any other -- attempted to convince anyone not to follow > > > > a traditional spiritual path. If you want to spend your > > > > life shooting up spiritual heroin, that's just FINE with > > > > me. It's just that I've kicked the habit myself, and am > > > > sharing some of the thoughts and realizations that > > > > allowed me to do that and find what, to me, is a better > > > > goal. (That is, living each day as if Now were the most > > > > important thing, not some nebulous "enlightened" future, > > > > and trying to enjoy more and more of what the world > > > > presents to me, while helping as many people as I can > > > > along the Way.) > > > > > > > > I choose this particular path in life *having experienced* > > > > the goal that was once sold to me. I have spent days, > > > > weeks, and sometimes months in subjective states of > > > > consciousness that seem to map strongly to Maharishi's > > > > CC, GC, and UC. > > > > > > > > My response to that subjective experience is Big Whoop. > > > > > > > > Neat enough at the time, but *none* of these states were > > > > in any real or objective sense any "better" or "higher" > > > > than any other state of attention. I am content these > > > > days (most of the time) with just allowing whatever state > > > > of attention happens to flit across my being to do, without > > > > seeking another. At other times, if I feel like it, I can > > > > use techniques I have learned to "re-access" these CC, > > > > GC, or UC states, if doing so feels like fun. I "put them > > > > on" for a while, enjoy them, and then allow them to fade > > > > and enjoy the next state of attention. I see no need to > > > > "seek" anything more than this. > > > > > > > > If others do, I say that they should go for it. If they > > > > are sincere in their own personal quest, and manage to > > > > express it on this forum *without consistently putting > > > > down or attempting to perform character assassination on > > > > those who believe otherwise*, I have nothing to say to > > > > them, either positive or negative. If they DO feel the > > > > need to constantly present their path in life as "higher" > > > > than other people's, and those other people as "lower" > > > > than themselves (think both Nabby and Jim), I might say > > > > something from time to time about THEM and their arrogant, > > > > pompous elitism. What I say is not intended to put down > > > > the entire spiritual path, just their sad expression of it. > > > > > > > > If you're a lurker out there, and trying to make sense > > > > of the conflicting opinions presented on this forum, I > > > > can suggest a technique for doing so. When someone reacts > > > > to another poster who has challenged the manufactured > > > > goal of enlightenment by pointing out that it is, in fact, > > > > manufactured, and the cultist challenged by this pulls the > > > > Cult 101 Don't Let These Naysayers Stop You From Shooting > > > > Up The Spiritual Heroin routine, ask yourself one question. > > > > > > > > "Which of these guys is trying to SELL me something? Which > > > > is trying to get me to do something that costs me money > > > > or time or both to 'achieve' something, and which is just > > > > stating a personal opinion, while SELLING nothing? If you > > > > do this, I think you'll find that those who are trying to > > > > get you to "stay the course" and "stay on the spiritual > > > > path" sound a lot more like schoolyard drug pushers than > > > > the critics do. All we're doing is presenting ideas. > > > > > > > > > >
