--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <vajradhatu@...> wrote: > > On Nov 7, 2011, at 10:17 AM, jpgillam wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote: > > > > > > On Nov 6, 2011, at 8:58 PM, "johnt" wrote: > > > > > > > You never will in a TM context, but if you study some of Milton > > Erickson, Bandler and Grinder and other related sources you will > > find that each part of a TM initiation has a well studied > > neurolinguistic effect which in this case is very effective at > > producing a self transcending accessing cue which accesses an > > experience at a primal (original) level prior to subsequent > > conditioning > > > > > > It's called the placebo effect silly. > > > > I thought the placebo effect tended to > > go away after a few weeks. I've been getting > > results from the TM puja for 34 years. It > > stills my mind. I recite it often, for > > that purpose. > > The way we know the TM puja and initiation process acts like a > placebo is because independent researchers fabricated a faux-TM > instruction and were able to get the exact same results as TM - > the same EEG profile and relaxation response, everything.
Somebody needs to ask Vaj to document this claim. "Exact same results" may not be quite as cut-and-dried as Vaj would like us to believe. Plus which, how long were those instructed by this faux method followed to see if they *continued* to get the purported "exact same results"? Also, of course, it's not responsive to Patrick's experience of getting the same results for 34 years from *performing* the puja. > So it's not the mantra at all, it's the inculcation of > belief. The puja is dramatic and convincing to most types > of people Convincing of *what*? As Vaj knows (or should know), the significance of the puja is rather strenuously *downplayed* at the introductory level. > who self-select based on the > intro lecture (and we actually know what types of people > self-select TM). Again, Vaj needs to be asked to document his assertions. What "types of people" are they, and how do we "know" this? Vaj has a tendency to make sweeping assertions like this; but on the rare occasions when you can get him to provide documentation, it has often turned out that the basis for the assertions is not quite as unequivocal as he makes it sound.
