On Nov 7, 2011, at 4:18 PM, maskedzebra wrote: > The majority of TM initiators not only stopped teaching TM, but have probably > even stopped meditating. I am almost certain of this.
That's true. It was actually true before recertification was required. > > However, for you to propose that the Puja ceremony works on the basis of the > placebo effect is so bizarre and misinformed as to be the same as saying that > when you are in a car that is moving, it turns out it is really an illusion: > you are actually not going anywhere. > > Maybe one in a hundred TM initiators (of all those that Maharishi made > teachers) still do the Puja;; but even all those who have turned their back > on TM and Maharishi, they, to a one, know that *the Puja works*. That is, to > say, singing the Puga (especially in the context of teaching someone to > meditate) alters one's consciousness, changes one's perception, and acts on > every level of one's being, including the physical. Well it's important to understand the context of the comment. Early TM marketing emphasized that TM was unique, you could get a mantra anywhere, but nothing was like TM - or so they wanted us and the public to believe. A couple dozen lousy "research" studies attempted to bolster the idea. If you were part of the TM buzz, you felt special, part of an in crowd, and possessor of something unique, lineal and ancient-but-scientific. Neuroscientists were of course interested to see if there actually was something unique, as claimed. One after one, all the key claims were found to be false: -it was not unique, it was actually a common relaxation response. -researchers used methodology to isolate the mantra as a variable and found there was also nothing special about the mantra - the TM experience (neurologically speaking) wasn't unique at all. It could be replicated with faux-TM in naive subjects. -metabolic rate, alleged to be much deeper than deep sleep also turned out to be false (and it appeared Wallace had used vey deceptive methodology to fake the results). TM was actually no different from a nap. -etc., etc. > > Now I personally would never conceive of doing a Puja, because of its very > power to change me in a way that I believe is inimical to sustaining the > integrity of my own personality.But for you to advance the idea that the > effect of singing the Puja is produced by the placebo effect, this is the > final evidence of your fraudulent claim to be a TM initiator. And not only > this: it proves you never learned TM, because you would not make this claim > had you passed through that experience. I would actually say most of the puja could be attributed to expectation effect from indoctrination, that expectation creating a style of placebo effect. Having said that, there are subtle aspects of mantra that allude the blade of science. But again, they're highly subjective - and since TM does not aim to balance attention nor does it allow a mindful clarify of the object of meditation, it's like trying to look at the stars through a telescope and hoping to see them clearly. The object of meditation largely remains a fuzzy buzz alternating with a comfortable laya. It's very comfortable and those with previous awakening of their shakti can progress. Others tend to languish and sleep. The principle of charm it turns out, isn't charming enough. Consciousness is not discerned clearly, but one is indoctrinated that mental silence IS "pure consciousness". Tell it to someone else. > > No, Vaj; you must stop this. Whatever TM, Maharishi, and the Puja are all > about, the notion of the placebo effect is utterly inapplicable. I have the > strongest resistance and aversion to the TM experience, to Maharishi, to the > Puja; but I know this: were I to sing it alone right now, and go through the > proper ritualistic motions (and offerings) my consciousness would undergo an > objective change, and I would find myself, however subtly, in another context > than the one I am in as I write this. TM and the Puja, they do, as Maharishi > insisted, operate mechanically. Your attempt to portray the Puja as a placebo > effect is so wrong-headed, so false to reality, and therefore such a lie, it > would be as if you said that lifting weights cannot affect your muscles. > > Not one initiator could ever say to himself or herself: That Puja thing; it > was just the placebo effect. And if anyone saying he or she was an former > initiator said it worked on the basis of the placebo effect, every initiator > in the world—who did not have a dishonest agenda—would know that such a > person never knew Maharishi, never learned Transcendental Meiditation, and > never was a Teacher of TM. > > The Puja was perhaps the most powerful thing about the whole TM Movement. And > it truly bathed us in the purest form of Hinduism. You never got baptized, > Vaj. You are an outsider. Even among those of us who have repudiated > Maharishi and TM and the beneficence of their influence upon a human being, > know that the Puja is anything but something that could have its > efficacy—experientially—on the basis of the placebo effect. Well you've probably missed my previous lauding of the puja - and the Mahesian piece de résistance - checking. Incredible savvy went into checking. So I think you are making an absolute statement about what you think I believe about the TM puja. It's only more recent historical evidence that lays the "puja" bare. It's not as special as believed: unless you're a believer. And it's that belief that you, still, cannot let go - despite constant exposure to the much grander pagan majesty of the Roman Catholic Mass.
