<snip> "Frankly, you and the other fans of Ravi are all feeding into his drama - and I don't see that as a kindness to him."
Susan, I've read the other responses but this early one grabs me. Do you see all the inherent assumptions in this statement? First of all, I do see it as a "kindness" to tease him....e.g., acknowledging I thought the one pic he posted was "hot." Secondly, "feeding into his drama" is again making the indirect assumption that Ravi is mentally ill and needs to be "managed" differently from everyone else on this forum - that is awfully presumptuous. His drama is his, and even he is pretty clear on that. He makes fun of himself...e.g., referring to himself as a Bhogi. He does take feedback under consideration, IMO, and he always states his intention to provoke. If I don't feel like being provoked, I ignore it. I don't find him any more outside the scope of "normal" than anyone else here, including myself. He does challenge me and I appreciate that. He hasn't called me an "attention slut" yet, as I believe Barry might have indirectly, but then again, because Barry was soooo indirect, I'm still not sure, nor do I really care, but that is a loaded slur for sure, if I choose to take it that way. I think that the presumption that all of us who have interacted with, or appreciated what Ravi and also Robin have to say are so stupid that we "take sides" and are just "sheep" is coming from a place of pure judgment and is supremely disrespectful to the individual and their right to state their POV. From what I've noticed overall, FFL's mission statement accommodates all perspectives and that's one of the beautiful things about it. Are we now going to "redo" the whole discussion on standards and manuals? That was last month and I was of the understanding, the majority voted against it. It is never clear to me who is exactly talking about who with non-descript kinds of statements...who is "glorifying" and "encouraging" and "egging on"? Which of the "recent and prolific posters" are exhibiting the "untethered" behavior - and what constitutes that? Is it Jim, who just did a week off - he's pretty prolific. Is it me, with my 48 posts last week - I've been pretty untethered. Is it Ravi, who returned recently after a couple-of-weeks hiatus? Is it Robin, who never posts close to the limit but also doesn't "chat"? Is it Judy, who posts 50 every week? Is it Yifu, who also posts close to 50? From an outsider perspective, one might say he is the most "untethered" of all - talk about provocative (first person ontology thing). His artwork can really bother me sometimes - I now ask myself what about whatever picture is bothering me so much. It's usually a personal belief that might need to be changed :) Ravi has a certain writing style, so does Robin, so do you, so do I, so does Curtis, so does Barry, so does Obba, so does Judy.....etc., etc. That's what makes it interesting and fun. I take in what I understand, or like, or what provokes me, or what makes me think, or what triggers me, or makes me laugh, and leave the rest. Sometimes I ask myself, what is the larger point said person is trying to get across? Often, other people who respond help me to figure that out - often, after I have already posted I change my viewpoint on said topic. I seldom go back to indicate this. I don't ultimately care what FFL thinks of me because I was trying to save my life and my sanity when I got here, and the larger goal is really all that I keep in mind, ultimately. Does the fact that I was deeply depressed mean that I am "manic-depressive" and should be "managed" more carefully? I certainly hope not - I'm not here to be coddled actually. Yes, it's all about what works for me, although I have tried to start giving back, because "survival" can be quite self-centered, and I don't want to re-create the next phase of my life that way. Ravi, btw, was the first person to respond to me and acknowledge my existence favorably and kindly and yes, I have a soft spot in my heart for him. He helped pull me up from the depths of depression, along with several others, and in the larger picture, all of FFL. Did I think Judy was "curt", when I started? Yes. Do I think so now? Not so much. I find her human and objective and mostly non-judgmental. She judges what she perceives as judgment, as do I. I would hope that she cares enough to call me on my shit when she thinks I'm way off base...I would hope that anyone does. I would totally take it under consideration and although my ego might react badly at first, ultimately, I might revisit my POV. This is all within the range of "normal", the way I see it. Ravi does ID names and assign his version of labels, so do others, so do you. If Ravi "told a lie" about Curtis (which I paid absolutely no attention to at all btw, being an outsider) than Curtis will respond, as he did. I would too if someone was "lying" about me. But, when attaching a judgment to it all and coming to some larger conclusion and trying to identify "friends and enemies", one must be careful that they are not, in fact, being hypocritical. The whole "he who casts the first stone" and all - all of us are guilty is the way I look at it. I guarantee that I pay absolutely no attention to this at all and it has never influenced my opinion of Curtis or Barry or Bob or Vaj, for example. I come to my own conclusions and I don't appreciate the idea that I might be lumped into some "list" or "side." Yuk. I find Curtis very interesting to read and very funny. I totally also agree with Robin that his post to Ravi, letting him know he should "go ahead and get that guitar" changed the tone of what Robin was trying to say and cut him off. This forum recognizes everybody (someone will almost always jump in with a response) and one of those responses almost always has compassion and humor, and I find that tremendously freeing and validating and humane and healing. ________________________________ From: Susan <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, January 2, 2012 1:19 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Happy new year to everyone !!! (And more love bombing..) --- In [email protected], "curtisdeltablues" <curtisdeltablues@...> wrote: > > --- In [email protected], "authfriend" <jstein@> wrote: > > > > --- In [email protected], "curtisdeltablues" > > <curtisdeltablues@> wrote: > > > > > > Wow, nothing like hearing an excellent reputation that my ass > > > now has to try to live up to! Thanks Marek! > > > > > > "Untethered" is such an excellent word. I think the egging on > > > has to do with the fact that some of the new posters figured > > > out the social system. If you throw mud at Barry and Vaj and > > > myself, certain people will have your back. > > > > Says Curtis, parroting one of Barry's more ridiculous > > excuses, a variant of the one he borrowed yesterday. > > Wow, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt with that reason. Then you > genuinely support Ravi lying about why I left the movement on a public forum, > his constant use of a slur against people with mental disabilities, and and > trollish offensive language toward me. Hey Judy, you know that I like reading you and respect your honesty and common sense. I can't figure out what has been going on with you and your willingness to overlook what just happened with Ravi, and what has been happening with him. You may dislike Curtis, but come on...... Ravi is crossing so many lines here. The only thing I can think of is that you got sucked in to a battle you would normally see through. You can like Ravi all you want, and still call him on things like using "retard," gratuitous insults, and spreading rumors about Curtis. Frankly, you and the other fans of Ravi are all feeding into his drama - and I don't see that as a kindness to him. And more important, of course, it is really lying about someone else's reputation, something I know you would not stand for if Curtis were not the victim.. > > Your double standards goes so much deeper than I imagined. > > > > > It was a simple > > > social formula that has shielded some posters from a more > > > unanimous group, WTF? In this particular context I think > > > there is a callus > > > > (callous, adj.; callus, noun) (This correction is provided > > so Curtis can make a show of thanking me for it while > > pointedly ignoring the rest of what I said.) > > As always I appreciate these corrections that my robots failed me on. The > last time it was the only thing worth commenting on in your post and it > caused such a fuss. The exact one I was trying to avoid by not responding to > your taunts in that post. > > And unlike Ravi (that is a long A right?) I have a serious commitment to the > integrity of my point of view on the movement following my participation in > it. Unlike you ,whose strongest connection with the movement is your years > of Internet arguments about it, I have a deep history working in the > organization and those are the experiences I bring to bear as my > creditability when I raise my new POV. So although anyone here may know from > where Ravi is pulling this lie (hint, lack of sun) I don't want to hear this > on the next MUM student Youtube from Bobby Roth. > > So it matters, and you know it matters to me, but you have chosen your > battles. OK, that's how it rolls here. > > But please don't expect me to view your support for his behavior to be > anything less than direct hypocrisy in the exact area you and others give me > the most shit about. So we can now put to rest any version of your routine > about me calling Barry out, right? You are a fraud and a poseur of virtue, > contrived by malevolent convenience. > > > > > > disregard for the welfare of this person being played as a > > > pawn. There is something unseemly going on in this dynamic, > > > and I appreciate your speaking up. > > > > "Do you really not understand that Ravi has actual problems > > that shouldn't be speculated about on the Internet like he > > is our private intellectual toy?"--Curtis to Robin, awhile > > back > > I haven't even begun to speculate on Ravi's situation in detail Judy, I've > been pulling all my punches as you well know. But the situation I am dealing > with is of such an obvious nature, nothing needs to be said between me and > anyone without your personal agenda. > > But I have no reason to pull my punches with you so here goes. > > Ravi's lie about why I left the movement was reframed as a "tweek" by you > because you wouldn't mind if such an outspoken critic of all things Maharishi > was plagued by an internet rumor as having been expelled against his will for > immoral conduct. You let it slide in a demonstration of Carl Rovian tactics > against people you disagree with. > > So now we both have felt these shoes on both feet haven't we Judy. Perhaps > now you can understand what I mean when I say I pick my battles here. And > you can drop the pretense that you are acting differently here, running > around correcting people for what are obvious, hurtful lies in the context of > obnoxious mean-spirited trolling. > > I don't care if you correct his behavior or not, or why you don't. I don't > need you to help him make a fool of himself here. But I would appreciate > your understanding where I am coming from a little better and not giving me > shit for doing exactly what you are doing here, letting people fight their > own battles, and dropping in when you feel like something interests you or > you want to give someone a "tweek". > > Just stop being such a F'ing hypocrite about it. > > Si capisce? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have been fascinated by how far people can stretch their oft quoted > > > principles to encourage the enemy of their enemy. It is revealing many > > > trollish agendas here. But with kind words from some posters here, like > > > yourself, I feel as if there is another option for those who value it. > > > > > > Thanks man. > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "marekreavis" <reavismarek@> wrote: > > > > > > > > It's not my habit, at least for the last year or so, to interject my > > > > opinion into an ongoing thread, but following FFL for the last month or > > > > two, it's amazed me to observe the willingness of some folks here to > > > > glorify and encourage what, in my opinion and experience, appears to be > > > > some very untethered behavior by some of the more recent and prolific > > > > posters. > > > > > > > > And even more inexplicably, to gang up on Curtis, for attempting, in a > > > > straightforward yet still compassionate way, to engage in a reasonable > > > > exchange with, and criticism of, those individuals. > > > > > > > > For what it's worth, in my estimation Curtis is a true, shining example > > > > of what I'd always hoped the TM movement to produce. There's certainly > > > > no one on this board from whom I've learned more. > > > > > > > > Curtis certainly doesn't need any endorsement from me, but I felt > > > > compelled to write, regardless. > > >
