"Maybe one day the TMO will schism into two sects, the rationalists and the bhaktis, each will seize a Dome, and its on!"
Each would teach the same basic technique, same puja, only the atmosphere would be quite different for each sect at initiation time: Rationalist TM: The TM Center is in an uber modern building in the city, long thin windows, high ceilings, industrial chic, painted a soft grey outside. You knock at the door and are instructed by speaker: "Jai Guru Dev. Please enter your code". You check your smartphone, find the file, hold the graphic up to the reader and the door clicks open. Inside it is spacious, and spare, a faint smell of sandalwood and floor wax. You take a seat on the micro-suede and chrome Scandinavian couch. There is a low black granite coffee table in front of you, TMO publications arranged precisely to the right, with two small aluminum signs like name plates to the left, one labeled "Fruit" and the other, "Flowers", both in a san serif font. You place your offerings in the appropriate areas on the table, and sit back to wait. You check you watch and see that you are actually right on time. Just then a door opens. You look left and see the teachers, Gunter and Lisa, both blond, tall, German, impeccably groomed, wearing single piece grey jumpsuits, walking towards you. They are both smiling when they stop in front of you (did Gunter click his heels together just then?). "Jai Guru Dev!!" They say in unison... Bhakti TM: The TM Center resides in a leafy tree filled neighborhood of big lawns and comfortable houses, with plenty of parking. You park and begin walking up the walkway towards a two story white cottage with red shutters. There is a sign near the door, "Namaste! Come On In!". You step inside the brightly lit foyer and instantly the aroma of fresh chocolate chip cookies hits your nostrils. You start to get hungry until the strong scent of rose incense also becomes apparent, almost overpowering. Someone is playing "Layla" and singing to it sporadically somewhere in the back of the house. You look into the living room which has colored sheer curtains at the windows and some brightly covered throws on the overstuffed country furniture. Someone has put up two pictures on the wall, one is Maharishi and next to him Jimi Hendrix. "Dude!" The voice comes from around the corner. You walk through the doorway, over to a middle aged guy, trying for a ponytail with what is left, wearing overalls and a grateful dead t-shirt. "Name's Krishna Patterson, and you are here to learn TM? Would you like a cookie? Just baked! I've had six!" You begin to take one while at the same time noticing that "Krishna" is really buzzing from his sugar high. "Oh and here's `teach'!". A short woman in a sari and a garland of flowers appears. "Hi, I am Saraswati Rutkowski, glad to meet you! Let's get started!" --- In [email protected], "futur.musik" <futur.musik@...> wrote: > > Yeah, I can see the marketing problem it presents for the TMO if they > discount scientific or demonstrable results. Since the TMO has always set > scientific validity as a key objective, wrt marketing and fundraising, it > remains an ongoing tussle for the TMO between putting enough scientific > evidence out there to bolster the claims it makes and getting pinned down > with those attempts, especially wrt things like sidhis and yagyas. > > Maybe one day the TMO will schism into two sects, the rationalists and the > bhaktis, each will seize a Dome, and its on! > > --- In [email protected], "curtisdeltablues" <curtisdeltablues@> > wrote: > > > > Although I did use some scientific terms because I believe that this kind > > of claim could meet such a threshold in principle, it makes just as much > > sense through the perspective in this sentence: > > > > "practical and solitary nature of the TM practice eventually won out." > > > > You felt results so you continued, right? Not scientific but practical. > > > > If we lower the bar below a scientific threshold and say > > "this claim could be practically demonstrated so that people of good faith > > could appreciate that it was true" wouldn't we be back to the need for > > demonstration? This is not a claim that you will feel better, it is about > > the world so we can share in its evidence together, in a strictly "aw > > shucks ain't that a sight Ma" kind of way. > > > > You are making a case for apriori faith in the system which is fine for > > believers. But since this is in principle testable, even if we accept that > > for people who already believe it is not necessary,wouldn't the message go > > out to more people just as it did for TM? Even though it wasn't the > > science rap that drew you in, it was the thing that made it rise above > > other spiritual practices in popularity. > > > > So I get that you don't find this necessary, what I am challenging is why > > isn't this a priority in an organization whose purpose is to spread this > > knowledge and preserve Maharishi's teaching. > > > > So on an individual level, sure I agree. But this is a claim about the > > world and it will involve cash from donors right? > > > > There are plenty of ways that we use to distinguish fact from fantasy in > > life. None of them that I know of are against such a demonstration even if > > it doesn't meet true scientific standards. > > > > They say they can do this wonderful thing, show us as artists who want to > > appreciate its glory. > > > > Is that a better fit? > > > Couldn't hurt. The TMO has always tried to have this rigidly scientific > demeanor to justify its programs > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "futur.musik" <futur.musik@> wrote: > > > > > > Although your arguments for scientific validation are valid, I am not > > > sure it makes a lot of difference whether the sutras and yagyas are > > > provable scientifically. While I can see Maharishi's attempts to bridge > > > science and yoga as necessary to bring his message to the West initially, > > > now that so many teachers and methods are here, it has become more of a > > > spiritual cafeteria in terms of what each of us decides benefits us as a > > > practice, vs. which technique can be proved rigorously by science. > > > > > > I remember my starting TM had nothing to do with science. I had already > > > been exposed to Hindu, Buddhist and Christian religions and although I > > > got a lot out of each one, the practical and solitary nature of the TM > > > practice eventually won out. I am not arguing for TM, but rather to show > > > that the science is nice to have but not a must have when deciding which > > > technique to adopt as a regular practice. > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "curtisdeltablues" > > > <curtisdeltablues@> wrote: > > > > > > > > And with this announcement we enter the realm of the testable. Let's > > > > break it down: > > > > > > > > > While Yogic Flying produces a powerful, generalized, non-directed > > > > > surge> of positivity for the general well-being of society, > > > > > > > > Actually sidhis themselves included many testable behaviors. But that > > > > didn't really pan out too well did it? No one was able to produce > > > > something specific that would prove the theory. It could have > > > > happened, Maharishi predicted it would happen, but it did not happen. > > > > > > > > So they changed the claim to something they could paint a circle around > > > > and claim victory, the panacea snake oil of "generalized non-directed > > > > surge" (I think I saw that flick when it came out on VHS, It stars > > > > Ginger Lynn who claimed to have a detachable jaw and in the third scene > > > > with the pizza delivery guy made me a believer. Now that's what you > > > > call a convincing demo of a claim!) > > > > > > > > So they could have given a demo that would have changed the world > > > > forever with the sidhis. The finding lost objects one that Larry > > > > Domash bragged about doing would have been enough, and we would have > > > > given Jonathan Shear's claim of understanding a squirrel a polite pass. > > > > But they didn't, which in the rest of the world is known as, they > > > > couldn't. They got off the hook by changing the claim to be so broad > > > > that, "hey look a squirrel" worked for movement believers. It did not > > > > impress the world at large who pretty much unanimously responded to all > > > > these claims with "Yeah right, hey do you want to go grab a coffee?" > > > > > > > > But happy days are here again folks, if the movement will step up they > > > > have a chance once again to redeem themselves and convert the world. > > > > All that is needed is for them to produce exactly what they are > > > > claiming to. And before you are too quick to say "oh that Curtis is > > > > being a butthole again" think about this for a minute. This is a > > > > chance for them to prove to the world that their claims are true, so > > > > why are they not doing it in a form that the rest of us could > > > > appreciate? The fulfillment of the world plan is right there in front > > > > of them, isn't it? Am I being unreasonable for asking them for a > > > > convincing demo? When did TM become the a branch of the Evangelical > > > > Church of Jesus the Redeemer? Why is faith necessary when a demo is > > > > possible? > > > > > > > > <Yagyas create a > > > > > very focused, concentrated influence of positivity designed to > > > > > neutralize specific threats. Like the threats that are looming today.> > > > > > > > > All they have to do is pick 3 things. 3 things that need yagya-ing. 3 > > > > things that are broken or not enough of something or too much of > > > > something we don't want. Why is it improper in principle to insist > > > > that they first put their money where their mouth is with a decent demo > > > > of this effect that we can all see if in fact it is specific? Why > > > > aren't they the ones insisting on one if they are so sure of this that > > > > they will accept people's money for them? Hell, they deserve to put > > > > down a wager with all of us skeptics. If they could do X then it is > > > > reasonable for them to ask us to pony up and pay for the next round, > > > > right? > > > > > > > > So I challenge any believers in yagyas here to come up with 3 things > > > > that we could verify that Yagyas could fix. I believe it deals with > > > > the issue of the simultaneity not equaling causation problem by asking > > > > for 3. Wouldn't that do it? And if it isn't scientifically airtight > > > > (also an anatomically enlightening scene in the above mentioned movie) > > > > wouldn't it be a good faith demo worthy of more research? Since the > > > > whole TM thing is not supposed to be faith based why is it out of line > > > > to expect that they do what they claim first? > > > > > > > > But they wont, and I have a pretty good idea of why. I saw this > > > > routine before with the sidhis. Nobody ever guesses which shell the pea > > > > is under in this game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "Buck" <dhamiltony2k5@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > All area Satsangs: > > > > > While Yogic Flying produces a powerful, generalized, non-directed > > > > > surge > > > > > of positivity for the general well-being of society, Yagyas create a > > > > > very focused, concentrated influence of positivity designed to > > > > > neutralize specific threats. Like the threats that are looming today. > > > > > > > > > > [LAUNCHING: THE NEW NATIONAL YAGYA PROGRAM] > > > > > > > > > > Maharishi has designed the most powerful system of Yagya the world has > > > > > ever seen. The Maharishi National YagyaSM program is a massive > > > > > application of Yagya on a national scale, specifically engineered to > > > > > produce the largest possible impact on an entire nation. > > > > > Focus for 2012: Maharishi Yagyas® for the Nation > > > > > Join us in this great endeavor, please.Let us launch this powerful new > > > > > program, > > > > > may abundant good fortune smile on America, and may Maharishi's > > > > > great legacy of peace and enlightenment permanently bless the human > > > > > race. > > > > > > > > > > Jai Guru Dev > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
