I'll respond to one thing you said below, because I was having similar thoughts earlier.
--- In [email protected], "seventhray1" <steve.sundur@...> wrote: > > Maybe it''s like the old actresses who had her time in the > limelight and then faded, but still holds on to those heydays, > and brings them up to anyone who might listen. I hope not. That struck me from the beginning, the Gloria Swanson- ness of it all. And not just on the drama queen level. :-) Robin sashayed into this saloon (FFL) carrying a sack of his old movies with him. He assumed he was speaking to an audience who knew all of his old exploits and would therefore use the past to "weight" anything he said in the present. He expected them to cut him breaks they might not cut anyone else, because he, after all, was the famous Robin Woodrow Carlsen, the guy who may or may not have been enlightened in the past and who stood up to Maharishi. And Werner Erhardt. And others. He "confronted" them all. And so he expected to confront us. Some fell for it, some didn't. Try to imagine reading the things he wrote here if you *hadn't* been cutting him all those breaks. What would you have thought of his ideas and his writing style if he'd breezed into town with no past, just as a guy in the present talking about ideas in the present? We never got that chance, because he rode into Dodge City wearing his past (imagined or real) like a ten-gallon hat. > --- In [email protected], "curtisdeltablues" > <curtisdeltablues@> wrote: > > > > Since Vaj is being a pretty good sport about this I will speak up for > him and say that he wouldn't be out of line in doing a Snoopy's > I-told-you-so dance on this one. What Ann may not be aware of about the > dynamics of the place is that the Robin hitting people issue wasn't > really about Robin hitting people. It was being used as a tool by some > here to impeach Vaj's credibility. And it was Robin who, through a > convoluted process of reasoning I will get to below, was one of the > biggest enthusiasts of this POV, knowing all the while that he was > bullshitting us all. > > > > Here are a few problems I see in this whole deal. Vaj's perspective on > this has been misrepresented in Robin's mea culpa to allow for the > equivocation room that I suspect is not really flying even for those who > would rather die than admit that Vaj has been vindicated here. Since > I've endured pages of Robin's accusations that I am being subtly > deceptive on this board I'm gunna spell this out as I see it. > > > > Vaj said there was a video of Robin hitting someone. > > > > Robin said this video was impossible and watched as others piled on > Vaj to use this as an example of a lie he had been caught in. > > > > Robin encouraged this POV. > > > > Someone showed up who could corroborate the story. > > > > Before she could, Robin came clean. But still is attempting to evade > an owed apology to Vaj who he let hang out to dry, knowing full well > there was bullshittery in play. > > > > And I get it that the fans of the careful parsing will delight in the > distinction between when the hitting took place and that perhaps Robin > was technically not boldfaced lying in a Clintonesque "I never had sex > with that woman" but was at the very least involved in the statements > that followed that Monica was deranged. > > > > So why the slick Willy routine Robin? There is plenty of compassion > here for weird shit we all did in our past and this doesn't sound like > such a big deal. There were a whole bunch of weird psychological > "breakthrough" cults that seem to be far worse than what you were > running back then. If you weren't banging your disciples ten deep in > Elvis' Graceland white panty parties, you come off as better than most > people in your position of power over the entranced. > > > > So the last few months of Vaj battles seems kind of disingenuous. Vaj > was shooting, you were dancing, the music stopped so own it. It wasn't > such a big deal until you used it as a way to make Vaj look bad in what > I consider to be a disgusting campaign around here to make it look as if > Vaj was never a TM teacher, which you also piled on for. > > > > You did the guy wrong and aren't owning it. > > > > > > Now I'd like to get to the part that represents my biggest interest in > what you wrote. You seem to be playing two sides of a dangerous fence > here. On one hand you are calling your visions of demon infested people > a hallucination, but you don't seem to be renouncing the POV that there > really were Gods who made you enlightened. And I find your holding on to > the power of your previous enlightenment itself problematic because you > seem to be using the buy-in of your followers as proof that you really > were uniquely (compared to the the rest of us) in some powerful > enlightened state rather than being one of the millions who was > suffering from mental impairment. > > > > Here I tread lightly but earnestly. > > > > I don't believe this POV helps your recovery and I suspect if you are > under the care of any doctor they would agree. People have followed > others suffering from deranged mental states into actual "cut off their > heads" battle Robin. People bought into Mao. Lots of people. Millions of > people. Hundreds of millions of people. > > > > The statement that everyone in the room was experiencing the same > thing when you did in your "out damn spot" demon dances is a false proof > statement with no epistemological merit. Your group was functioning > under the conditions of a well known phenomenon and their reports are as > suspect as those of any eye witnesses but multiplied by a thousand > because you guys shared a common language to discuss experiences that > shape reporting to make it all fit better. There were big payoffs for > anyone who answered the cop's question: "was he the one who you saw > sneak behind the counter at Katz's Deli and remove half of one of their > piled mile high pastramis on rye, leading to Hazel Kurmuffle ending up > with a normal sized non Katz Deli style sandwich?" with a "yes master". > (or whatever it was that designated you as especially in the know > compared to them. (Maharishi assumed that title as his name and upped > Guru Dev's to His Divinity, named no doubt for that jello, whipped > cream, grape and marshmallow dessert popular in the 50's.) Sorry, I am > prone to food digressions... > > > > You and I have had our friendly connections here. I believe they > digressed into a diluted form of the interactions you described in your > "I did it but not exactly as he said I did and it was the vedic gods > after all" non-admission. From the beginning of our interactions I > objected to the sports metaphors for our discussions because it was not > a battle for me, it was a discussion of our different POVs and where we > draw our lines. But for you it seems to have been a dance of dominance. > One that ended our friendly discussions when you seemed compelled to > push my face in your perspective of my faults as if you were expelling > something impure in me. > > > > IMO you are still not coming clean with your fellow humans Robin. You > are trying to have it both ways. None of us is running the > > "truth" here,it just isn't one of our options. The battle is over. > Everyone should put their maces and lances and bows and arrows away and > go home to our families. I believe for you some of the pieces of that > puzzle will be found in former followers who I suspect will be more than > willing to give you a break, and whose own healing you could probably > facilitate if you were willing to get off the silk and join their > humanness. And there may be a biochemical reason why you will never > escape from what I call the "prison of specialness", but for your sake I > hope there is and that you find it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Jan 21, 2012, at 10:09 PM, awoelflebater wrote: > > > > > > > Now I am not sure, because I don't have the will or the stamina to > go through the long list of posts dealing with the hitting issues, why > this is such a hot topic or by who(m?) it has been brought up (but I am > guessing perhaps Vaj) or even what the exact questions regarding hitting > are. > > > > > > > > > OK, let's put this to rest once and for all. > > > > > > There were several untrue rumors flitting around about Robin, most > facilitated by TM TB's: > > > > > > -he was dead > > > > > > -he committed suicide > > > > > > -he went "insane" > > > > > > -his schtick ended when he began beating students on stage. > > > > > > The only one that has some semblance of truth is the latter and then > only vaguely. All the people I knew involved in WTS stopped when a VHS > of Robin thumping his fists (not beating, not punching) on a student > circulated. It was the last straw for some "hangers-on". > > > > > >
