--- In [email protected], "sparaig" <LEnglish5@...> wrote: > > I never said that anyone should take the claims seriously, but.... > > You said something interesting below: > > > So maybe he believed it too. But by now I think it is more reasonable to > > think more carefully about the source of the belief in flying and noting > > that if this was such a big deal in Vedic times, don't you think it would > > have been mentioned a lot earlier? > > > > Hmmm... The Yoga Sutras devotes one chapter out of four to the sidhis. That > seems to be a pretty big "shout out" about them.
I was thinking that they were compiled by Patanjali around the second or third century, isn't that after the period of the earlier Vedic texts? > > Most religions have stories about saints and messiahs performing miracles. > Such abilities are taken as proof that these people really ARE saints and > messiahs... Mythologies are full of all sorts of fantastic stories and claims, sure. And the Bible in particular does base its credibility on the two legs of Jewish prophesy fulfillment and miracles. (Although interestingly no flying. Perhaps the walking on water bit was more of a pull for fishing based economies where people would find this trick more useful. > > How much more mentioning do you need before you are willing to admit that it > was a big deal to the story-writers? I don't connect apes flying in the Ramayana for example with the specific claims of yogis learning how to fly. This is a serious distinction about the claims that you or I might be able to develop these skills through a certain practice. When it occurs in the Puranas it is just another super thing the super gods and divine rishi's do. > > For that matter, how much earlier do you need to go? Religious texts that > include descriptions of the performance of miracles are by far, the most > ancient texts we have. Again, they are a hodgepodge of oh wow, not a claim that anyone who can think a thought can accomplish it. > > Just what are you expecting? Detailed drawings of yogic flying in cave > paintings? Cave paintings don't have any background references since that artistic technique was developed later. Maybe all of them depict flying animals as well as flying humans! The coolest Netfix movie I have seen this year is: Cave of Forgotten Dreams which documents for the first time on film the oldest cave painting we have found. It stopped my breath watching it, I highly recommend it. I still think it is kind of a sporty claim that guys like you and I could do this and not some monkey man or divine rishi, and should have gotten more press in the earlier texts of the Vedic tradition. But some might say that Patanjali was in fact just codifying things that had been passed down orally for centuries before that. I would have no way of proving or disproving such a claim. > > L > > --- In [email protected], "curtisdeltablues" <curtisdeltablues@> > wrote: > > > > What is so interesting to me is that if some guy jumped out of a van and > > handed you these claims, you would judge them as crazy. > > > > But then apply the magic of far away, and long ago and voila! People take > > it seriously. > > > > The Shiva Samhita is by an unknown author from the 16th or 17th century. > > That is pretty late in the game for having a supposed connection to Vedic > > times. It is the equivalent of finding a pamphlet on the ground near the > > freak's midway at a carnival and saying: hey these claims are very likely > > to be true! > > > > Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. These flimsy references > > don't cut it. There is no reason for modern people to take the claims of > > the supernatural feat of "flying" seriously. First it was a way from > > Maharishi to get people to flock to more expensive courses with bogus > > promises. Then when that didn't pan out(magical things did not happen) it > > became a reason to get people to flock to big courses to "save the world". > > Now if anyone wants to make a case that Maharishi believed his own hype > > instead of being a straight up con, I think you could make that case. On > > seeing "flyers' for the first time, he reportedly said "Is that all they > > can do?" (That story is from Jerry) > > > > So maybe he believed it too. But by now I think it is more reasonable to > > think more carefully about the source of the belief in flying and noting > > that if this was such a big deal in Vedic times, don't you think it would > > have been mentioned a lot earlier? > > > [...] >
