The oldest detailed description of siddhis I can find is Krishna describing them to Uddhava in the Uddhava Gita, which apparently dates at least to 1000 BCE.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uddhava_Gita L --- In [email protected], "curtisdeltablues" <curtisdeltablues@...> wrote: > > --- In [email protected], "sparaig" <LEnglish5@> wrote: > > > > I never said that anyone should take the claims seriously, but.... > > > > You said something interesting below: > > > > > So maybe he believed it too. But by now I think it is more reasonable to > > > think more carefully about the source of the belief in flying and noting > > > that if this was such a big deal in Vedic times, don't you think it would > > > have been mentioned a lot earlier? > > > > > > > Hmmm... The Yoga Sutras devotes one chapter out of four to the sidhis. That > > seems to be a pretty big "shout out" about them. > > I was thinking that they were compiled by Patanjali around the second or > third century, isn't that after the period of the earlier Vedic texts? > > > > > Most religions have stories about saints and messiahs performing miracles. > > Such abilities are taken as proof that these people really ARE saints and > > messiahs... > > > Mythologies are full of all sorts of fantastic stories and claims, sure. And > the Bible in particular does base its credibility on the two legs of Jewish > prophesy fulfillment and miracles. (Although interestingly no flying. > Perhaps the walking on water bit was more of a pull for fishing based > economies where people would find this trick more useful. > > > > > How much more mentioning do you need before you are willing to admit that > > it was a big deal to the story-writers? > > > I don't connect apes flying in the Ramayana for example with the specific > claims of yogis learning how to fly. This is a serious distinction about the > claims that you or I might be able to develop these skills through a certain > practice. When it occurs in the Puranas it is just another super thing the > super gods and divine rishi's do. > > > > > For that matter, how much earlier do you need to go? Religious texts that > > include descriptions of the performance of miracles are by far, the most > > ancient texts we have. > > Again, they are a hodgepodge of oh wow, not a claim that anyone who can think > a thought can accomplish it. > > > > > Just what are you expecting? Detailed drawings of yogic flying in cave > > paintings? > > Cave paintings don't have any background references since that artistic > technique was developed later. Maybe all of them depict flying animals as > well as flying humans! > > The coolest Netfix movie I have seen this year is: Cave of Forgotten Dreams > which documents for the first time on film the oldest cave painting we have > found. It stopped my breath watching it, I highly recommend it. > > I still think it is kind of a sporty claim that guys like you and I could do > this and not some monkey man or divine rishi, and should have gotten more > press in the earlier texts of the Vedic tradition. But some might say that > Patanjali was in fact just codifying things that had been passed down orally > for centuries before that. I would have no way of proving or disproving such > a claim. > > > > > > > > > > L > > > > --- In [email protected], "curtisdeltablues" > > <curtisdeltablues@> wrote: > > > > > > What is so interesting to me is that if some guy jumped out of a van and > > > handed you these claims, you would judge them as crazy. > > > > > > But then apply the magic of far away, and long ago and voila! People > > > take it seriously. > > > > > > The Shiva Samhita is by an unknown author from the 16th or 17th century. > > > That is pretty late in the game for having a supposed connection to Vedic > > > times. It is the equivalent of finding a pamphlet on the ground near the > > > freak's midway at a carnival and saying: hey these claims are very likely > > > to be true! > > > > > > Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. These flimsy references > > > don't cut it. There is no reason for modern people to take the claims of > > > the supernatural feat of "flying" seriously. First it was a way from > > > Maharishi to get people to flock to more expensive courses with bogus > > > promises. Then when that didn't pan out(magical things did not happen) > > > it became a reason to get people to flock to big courses to "save the > > > world". Now if anyone wants to make a case that Maharishi believed his > > > own hype instead of being a straight up con, I think you could make that > > > case. On seeing "flyers' for the first time, he reportedly said "Is that > > > all they can do?" (That story is from Jerry) > > > > > > So maybe he believed it too. But by now I think it is more reasonable to > > > think more carefully about the source of the belief in flying and noting > > > that if this was such a big deal in Vedic times, don't you think it would > > > have been mentioned a lot earlier? > > > > > [...] > > >
