I have to argue with you on that - first of all I said not all, but a lot. Of course not all long term TM'ers are ineffective in life, just at not all TM teacher turn into unpleasant people like the TMO leaders often do - I have for example praised Jerry Jarvis with whom I had limited interaction but for his status in the Movement at the time he was a real fine fellow - he treated me and the other meditators at the Atlanta Center very well - he was not aloof, arrogant or dismissive of people who were not of his "rank" within the Movement.
On the opposite end of the scale I also had dealings with Gene Speigel, Susan Humphries, Chris Crowell, Greg Wilson and his wife Georgina who were all aloof, arrogant, unpleasant and Georgina W. looked me right dead in my eyes and told me a flat out lie. The behavior of A LOT of long time TM'ers in leadership roles is not what one would expect of ANYONE who did TM if TM had the effect it is advertised to have. As a former MIU faulty member you cannot seriously deny the sloth and inefficiency that existed in that place and in most Movement facilites - the stories of this are legion - I am speaking from experience. I lived and and dealt with it on a daily basis. I acknowledge that there are long time TM'ers who are successful like Seinfeld. I don't know what it is that makes the phenomenon occur of the TM walking dead - but please don't deny it exists. There are too many people who post here who can vouch for the TM brain dead - having said that some of them I like and had good friendships with. But the point is that TM is SUPPOSED to lead to "excellence in action" it is ADVERTISED to improve life in many respects including ones performance of one's allotted duty so to speak and IF TM were truly the universal balm universally appropriate for everyone with the same effect in everyone them we should expect that everyone should do TM and become as successful as Jerry Seinfeld and Clint Eastwood. TM proponents claim that TM leads to many physiological benefits like lower blood pressure, improved heart functioning and so forth. Is it out of bounds to assume that the mental/emotional and behavioral benefits advertised by the TMO would also be universally seen in all populations that do TM? Yet the benefits are not seen universally therefore I personally have no choice but to conclude that TM does not perform as advertised. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "feste37" <feste37@...> wrote: > > Just a quick reaction to this: just because people stop doing something > doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't work or isn't doing them good. Exercise > is a good example. How many people start exercise programs and discontinue > them, even though they know it is good for them? With TM, you do have to make > the time for it, and not everyone is willing to do that on a long-term basis. > Also, the TM critics here seem to accept the idea that many long-term > meditators are ineffective in life (as you put it). I'm not convinced of that > at all. Recently Jerry Seinfeld was on ABC talking about his 40-year TM > practice. Thousands of other very successful people are long-term TMers, and > this association between ineffectiveness and long-term TM seems to me > decidedly unproven and most probably untrue. > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson <mjackson74@> wrote: > > > > Wow - there is a lot here - at least for me as I have been in the process > > of processing my feelings/experiences with TM these last months - I have > > tired also to make that point that if TM is actually as effective why do so > > many people quit? Why do so many people who do TM long term act like asses > > or become completely ineffective in life? Not everyone, but a lot do. > > > > I appreciate your posting these words. > > > > I was re-reading part of Earl Kaplan's letter and want to know what you > > think of this part: > > > > > > "One other important point is that the mechanical repetition > > of a mantra without meaning or devotion brings no spiritual progress > > whatsoever. This point is referred to in the yoga sutras and in many > > discussions of great spiritual teachers. The mechanical repetition of some > > meaningless word brings no opening of the heart, no love in one's life, and > > no > > unfoldment of true spiritual values. > > Haven't you ever > > wondered why so many people in the TM movement seemed so heartless, > > especially > > the administrators the early courses? It was because their mechanical > > repetition of a meaningless word was actually closing their heart, not > > opening > > it. That is why so many people in the TM movement have suffered a sort of > > disassociation with so much of their life where they don't have the same > > feelings they used to. It's not because they are more highly evolved, it is > > because they are disconnected from their hearts." > > > > What do you think about this? > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Duveyoung <no_re...@yahoogroups.com> > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 10:15 AM > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks > > > > > > Â > > What, Richard, what? I don't get to express an opinion? > > > > Of course I'm an asshole -- everyone is. > > > > And remember these opinions are from a brain that did 30 years of TM, > > 44,000 hours in the chair, 2,000 taught -- how could TM be such a "nothing > > technique" that it didn't even dent my revulsion of the movement's leaders? > > If I was not improved, and my opinion is for shit, then these leaders are > > leaders of a movement that is offering a technique that doesn't work -- so > > they're frauds -- or, as I have said: ASSHOLES! > > > > Who doesn't think their thoughts are legit until otherwise persuaded? > > > > These Rajas were snobby, prideful, uncaring about the rights of others, > > dismissive, and on and on. Not always, but often. Not to me personally, > > so much. as it was to EVERY. ONE. THEY. KNEW. > > > > One of these guys was fond of snapping his fingers to get people doing > > something -- like a Nazi SS. Which reminds me of this time I personally > > walked over and handed a check for $500 to yet another TM minor-leader, and > > he too perfunctorily snapped his fingers to get me to give him the check > > and leave his office. Fuck, eh? The $500 was chicken feed to him. > > > > I've know six of the movement's super-rich -- hundreds of millions in net > > worth each. All of them strutted around like feudal lords....not even nice > > to their wives. > > > > It's the money -- it corrupts......corrupts everyone. Even a person making > > $30,000 a year looks down on a homeless person in the streets.....like > > that, the ego glues itself to symbols to make itself real. BAH! > > > > And double BAH! on the movement for offering position, access and privilege > > to the rich -- so that they could be milked dry by Girish et alia. > > > > This was two decades ago -- who knows, I have gotten "better" as a human > > in that time, so certainly they will have been smacked enough by karma to > > sand down a lot of their rough spots. Humility can come in an instant, so > > who knows what they've evolved into by now. The acid test is what they do > > with their money and how they treat their minions. > > > > And those who are rich and fight to remain decent human beings are as if > > funneled into their personalities by dint of the movement's impoverished > > masses who relentlessly beg from the rich for loans, gifts, and investment > > in gonzo business deals. And the movement is knocking on their door for > > more cash EVERY. DAY. Shit, even I get asked for donations by the TMO at > > least ten times a year. Simply trying to avoid all that rush for their > > gold turns the rich into fear-everyone types, and it shows when you try to > > approach the rich with anything but "hey, try the bean casserole." They > > smell your beggary from 100 feet away. So, on that level, I pity them, > > because they are always hiding out from the masses, and having to have only > > people like them to hob nob with. Vicious cycle that. > > > > Now-a-days, mostly I see TM as a scam. The technique probably can be used > > to good effect, but what that is and how it compares to other techniques is > > just not clear. I'm all for anything that lessens physiological > > excitation, but I could rattle of a hundred ways to obtain that. > > > > I like the idea of the Holy Tradition, but where was it ever honored? > > Maharishi FORBID any translation of Guru Dev's words, right? Ask L.B., > > right? The movement has never NEVER NEVER wanted us to have intellectual > > clarity -- tried to keep us all as blind true believers and avoid any > > discussion of the fine points or the truths about the mantras, Guru Dev's > > money/death, and on and on -- we all know the ways the movement didn't > > respect us or grant us any right to know about most of the movement's > > machinations. > > > > Here's one symbolic moment for me: on teacher training, Maharishi had a > > meeting that was sort of "thrown together quickly in a very small venue" > > and it turned out that people could sit right next to Maharishi, maybe only > > a 100 people in the room. This rich guy planks his ass down right next to > > Maharishi, and picks up Maharishi's hand and holds it! -- instead of > > listening he interrupted Maharishi several times to add his opinion to the > > words of Maharishi. > > > > Maharishi didn't even twitch, and none of his body guards did either -- > > they knew the master was working the guy up to get a big gift to the > > movement, ya see? Up until the time, the only person I knew who'd ever > > touched Maharishi was Tat Walla Baba. > > > > If I had planked my ass down before that rich guy, I would have been sent > > home FOR FUCKING EVER for not knowing my place. > > > > And, yes, after that instance, I gave two more decades to the movement -- > > which means I was not only an asshole, but a mindful toady asshole. > > > > And that's the cause of all this bitterness you see in my writings -- I did > > this to me. 100% on me, but if anyone here wants to defend the TMO as > > guilt-free because "everyone has their integrity and has to own their own > > karma, so we get to maraud others with fake science, lies, lies and more > > lies," then I'm probably going to piss all over those opinions just as you, > > Dear Fucked-up Richard, have once again tried to piss on my opinions. > > > > My hope for you, Richard, is that you realize some day that you think of > > yourself as "rich" in knowledge and intellect and clarity, and you are > > treating the rest of us at FFL as if we are far beneath your acumen -- > > that is "we are poor." In this regard, you're as messed up as the snobby > > Rajas. > > > > Good luck to you, Bub. > > > > Edg > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Richard J. Williams" <richard@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Duveyoung: > > > > I know two of the Rajas -- worked for one for two years, > > > > knew the other via pot-lucks. Both millionaires AT BIRTH > > > > -- both assholes....mean assholes....haughty, rude > > > > motherfucking assholes. > > > > > > > You're an asshole for posting this. What was it, the the > > > money? LoL! > > > > > > > Did I make myself clear? I don't know about the others. > > > > > > > <SNIP> > > > > > >
