Feste37, My main bitch is that the promise was that we'd all get to be psychologically healthy, wise, deep, good, righteous, just, positive, supportive etc. etc. Jerry Seinfeld started off already accomplished -- he simply cannot be used as an example.
I personally, if anything, after 30 years, was more cranky, more frustrated, less inclined to patience, mired in blaming, socially ungainly, as narcissistic as always, and on and on, my list of "things I want to get out of my personality" NEVER CHANGED. No lines drawn through any of the items on my to-do list. Flat out I tell you I know NO ONE who changed from TM in any way that "life happening" wouldn't account for. TM was sold to us on the basis of fulfilling desires in daily life. That's how we were taught to "sell TM." Then, my life crumbled in a perfect storm of THREE major disasters simultaneously, and it was obvious that TM had not prepared me for the scenario. Not. In. The. Least. From then on, I could not deny that I had not gained anything from TM except maybe I could get to a state of lesser excitation quicker than non-meditators. I quit TM within a year of that. But, it could be argued that TM got me "far enough," such that my fervor for realization was strengthened enough such that my intellect could profit from my studies of Advaita. Like that. Who knows? But, me, I took it personally. I blamed Maharishi and Girish for being frauds who took a pretty good technique and promised everything -- "step right up and see the hoochy choochy girls for one dollar you spiritual hicks from the sticks." Of all the people I taught TM, less than 10% were still doing it a year later -- the results, if any, are not obvious to the masses....or to psychometrics. Emperor's new clothes and all that. Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "feste37" <feste37@...> wrote: > > Just a quick reaction to this: just because people stop doing something > doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't work or isn't doing them good. Exercise > is a good example. How many people start exercise programs and discontinue > them, even though they know it is good for them? With TM, you do have to make > the time for it, and not everyone is willing to do that on a long-term basis. > Also, the TM critics here seem to accept the idea that many long-term > meditators are ineffective in life (as you put it). I'm not convinced of that > at all. Recently Jerry Seinfeld was on ABC talking about his 40-year TM > practice. Thousands of other very successful people are long-term TMers, and > this association between ineffectiveness and long-term TM seems to me > decidedly unproven and most probably untrue. > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson <mjackson74@> wrote: > > > > Wow - there is a lot here - at least for me as I have been in the process > > of processing my feelings/experiences with TM these last months - I have > > tired also to make that point that if TM is actually as effective why do so > > many people quit? Why do so many people who do TM long term act like asses > > or become completely ineffective in life? Not everyone, but a lot do. > > > > I appreciate your posting these words. > > > > I was re-reading part of Earl Kaplan's letter and want to know what you > > think of this part: > > > > > > "One other important point is that the mechanical repetition > > of a mantra without meaning or devotion brings no spiritual progress > > whatsoever. This point is referred to in the yoga sutras and in many > > discussions of great spiritual teachers. The mechanical repetition of some > > meaningless word brings no opening of the heart, no love in one's life, and > > no > > unfoldment of true spiritual values. > > Haven't you ever > > wondered why so many people in the TM movement seemed so heartless, > > especially > > the administrators the early courses? It was because their mechanical > > repetition of a meaningless word was actually closing their heart, not > > opening > > it. That is why so many people in the TM movement have suffered a sort of > > disassociation with so much of their life where they don't have the same > > feelings they used to. It's not because they are more highly evolved, it is > > because they are disconnected from their hearts." > > > > What do you think about this? > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Duveyoung <no_re...@yahoogroups.com> > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 10:15 AM > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks > > > > > > Â > > What, Richard, what? I don't get to express an opinion? > > > > Of course I'm an asshole -- everyone is. > > > > And remember these opinions are from a brain that did 30 years of TM, > > 44,000 hours in the chair, 2,000 taught -- how could TM be such a "nothing > > technique" that it didn't even dent my revulsion of the movement's leaders? > > If I was not improved, and my opinion is for shit, then these leaders are > > leaders of a movement that is offering a technique that doesn't work -- so > > they're frauds -- or, as I have said: ASSHOLES! > > > > Who doesn't think their thoughts are legit until otherwise persuaded? > > > > These Rajas were snobby, prideful, uncaring about the rights of others, > > dismissive, and on and on. Not always, but often. Not to me personally, > > so much. as it was to EVERY. ONE. THEY. KNEW. > > > > One of these guys was fond of snapping his fingers to get people doing > > something -- like a Nazi SS. Which reminds me of this time I personally > > walked over and handed a check for $500 to yet another TM minor-leader, and > > he too perfunctorily snapped his fingers to get me to give him the check > > and leave his office. Fuck, eh? The $500 was chicken feed to him. > > > > I've know six of the movement's super-rich -- hundreds of millions in net > > worth each. All of them strutted around like feudal lords....not even nice > > to their wives. > > > > It's the money -- it corrupts......corrupts everyone. Even a person making > > $30,000 a year looks down on a homeless person in the streets.....like > > that, the ego glues itself to symbols to make itself real. BAH! > > > > And double BAH! on the movement for offering position, access and privilege > > to the rich -- so that they could be milked dry by Girish et alia. > > > > This was two decades ago -- who knows, I have gotten "better" as a human > > in that time, so certainly they will have been smacked enough by karma to > > sand down a lot of their rough spots. Humility can come in an instant, so > > who knows what they've evolved into by now. The acid test is what they do > > with their money and how they treat their minions. > > > > And those who are rich and fight to remain decent human beings are as if > > funneled into their personalities by dint of the movement's impoverished > > masses who relentlessly beg from the rich for loans, gifts, and investment > > in gonzo business deals. And the movement is knocking on their door for > > more cash EVERY. DAY. Shit, even I get asked for donations by the TMO at > > least ten times a year. Simply trying to avoid all that rush for their > > gold turns the rich into fear-everyone types, and it shows when you try to > > approach the rich with anything but "hey, try the bean casserole." They > > smell your beggary from 100 feet away. So, on that level, I pity them, > > because they are always hiding out from the masses, and having to have only > > people like them to hob nob with. Vicious cycle that. > > > > Now-a-days, mostly I see TM as a scam. The technique probably can be used > > to good effect, but what that is and how it compares to other techniques is > > just not clear. I'm all for anything that lessens physiological > > excitation, but I could rattle of a hundred ways to obtain that. > > > > I like the idea of the Holy Tradition, but where was it ever honored? > > Maharishi FORBID any translation of Guru Dev's words, right? Ask L.B., > > right? The movement has never NEVER NEVER wanted us to have intellectual > > clarity -- tried to keep us all as blind true believers and avoid any > > discussion of the fine points or the truths about the mantras, Guru Dev's > > money/death, and on and on -- we all know the ways the movement didn't > > respect us or grant us any right to know about most of the movement's > > machinations. > > > > Here's one symbolic moment for me: on teacher training, Maharishi had a > > meeting that was sort of "thrown together quickly in a very small venue" > > and it turned out that people could sit right next to Maharishi, maybe only > > a 100 people in the room. This rich guy planks his ass down right next to > > Maharishi, and picks up Maharishi's hand and holds it! -- instead of > > listening he interrupted Maharishi several times to add his opinion to the > > words of Maharishi. > > > > Maharishi didn't even twitch, and none of his body guards did either -- > > they knew the master was working the guy up to get a big gift to the > > movement, ya see? Up until the time, the only person I knew who'd ever > > touched Maharishi was Tat Walla Baba. > > > > If I had planked my ass down before that rich guy, I would have been sent > > home FOR FUCKING EVER for not knowing my place. > > > > And, yes, after that instance, I gave two more decades to the movement -- > > which means I was not only an asshole, but a mindful toady asshole. > > > > And that's the cause of all this bitterness you see in my writings -- I did > > this to me. 100% on me, but if anyone here wants to defend the TMO as > > guilt-free because "everyone has their integrity and has to own their own > > karma, so we get to maraud others with fake science, lies, lies and more > > lies," then I'm probably going to piss all over those opinions just as you, > > Dear Fucked-up Richard, have once again tried to piss on my opinions. > > > > My hope for you, Richard, is that you realize some day that you think of > > yourself as "rich" in knowledge and intellect and clarity, and you are > > treating the rest of us at FFL as if we are far beneath your acumen -- > > that is "we are poor." In this regard, you're as messed up as the snobby > > Rajas. > > > > Good luck to you, Bub. > > > > Edg > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Richard J. Williams" <richard@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Duveyoung: > > > > I know two of the Rajas -- worked for one for two years, > > > > knew the other via pot-lucks. Both millionaires AT BIRTH > > > > -- both assholes....mean assholes....haughty, rude > > > > motherfucking assholes. > > > > > > > You're an asshole for posting this. What was it, the the > > > money? LoL! > > > > > > > Did I make myself clear? I don't know about the others. > > > > > > > <SNIP> > > > > > >
