--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "mjackson74" <mjackson74@...> wrote: > > I have to argue with you on that - first of all I said not all, but a lot. Of > course not all long term TM'ers are ineffective in life, just at not all TM > teacher turn into unpleasant people like the TMO leaders often do - I have > for example praised Jerry Jarvis with whom I had limited interaction but for > his status in the Movement at the time he was a real fine fellow - he treated > me and the other meditators at the Atlanta Center very well - he was not > aloof, arrogant or dismissive of people who were not of his "rank" within the > Movement. > > On the opposite end of the scale I also had dealings with Gene Speigel, Susan > Humphries, Chris Crowell, Greg Wilson and his wife Georgina who were all > aloof, arrogant, unpleasant and Georgina W. looked me right dead in my eyes > and told me a flat out lie. The behavior of A LOT of long time TM'ers in > leadership roles is not what one would expect of ANYONE who did TM if TM had > the effect it is advertised to have. > > As a former MIU faulty member you cannot seriously deny the sloth and > inefficiency that existed in that place and in most Movement facilites - the > stories of this are legion - I am speaking from experience. I lived and and > dealt with it on a daily basis. > > I acknowledge that there are long time TM'ers who are successful like > Seinfeld. I don't know what it is that makes the phenomenon occur of the TM > walking dead - but please don't deny it exists. There are too many people who > post here who can vouch for the TM brain dead - having said that some of them > I like and had good friendships with. >
MJ: TM does not work as advertized. RD: uh-huh... MJ: I've seen walking dead people. RD: uh-hun...continue... MJ: Stories of their slothfulness are legion. RD: How so? MJ: They are brain dead. RD: <gasp> I'm starting to get the picture. MJ: Earl Kaplan says they are disconnected from their hearts. RD: I've got it! MJ: Got what? RD: Zombies! You're talking about fucking Zombies! MJ: You're full of shit. RD: No, no, really. Listen, MJ we have to *do* something about this before it's too late. MJ: Too late for what? RD: The Zombie apocalypse. MJ: You're starting to scare me. RD: Don't you get it? Zombies eat brains! MJ: Yes! And TM makes you brain dead! OMG this is worse than I thought. RD: Exactly. MJ: What should we do? RD: Have dinner. MJ: What? RD: I'm thinking Fava beans and a nice Tuscan chianti. > But the point is that TM is SUPPOSED to lead to "excellence in action" it is > ADVERTISED to improve life in many respects including ones performance of > one's allotted duty so to speak and IF TM were truly the universal balm > universally appropriate for everyone with the same effect in everyone them we > should expect that everyone should do TM and become as successful as Jerry > Seinfeld and Clint Eastwood. > > TM proponents claim that TM leads to many physiological benefits like lower > blood pressure, improved heart functioning and so forth. Is it out of bounds > to assume that the mental/emotional and behavioral benefits advertised by the > TMO would also be universally seen in all populations that do TM? > > Yet the benefits are not seen universally therefore I personally have no > choice but to conclude that TM does not perform as advertised. > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "feste37" <feste37@> wrote: > > > > Just a quick reaction to this: just because people stop doing something > > doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't work or isn't doing them good. Exercise > > is a good example. How many people start exercise programs and discontinue > > them, even though they know it is good for them? With TM, you do have to > > make the time for it, and not everyone is willing to do that on a long-term > > basis. Also, the TM critics here seem to accept the idea that many > > long-term meditators are ineffective in life (as you put it). I'm not > > convinced of that at all. Recently Jerry Seinfeld was on ABC talking about > > his 40-year TM practice. Thousands of other very successful people are > > long-term TMers, and this association between ineffectiveness and long-term > > TM seems to me decidedly unproven and most probably untrue. > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson <mjackson74@> wrote: > > > > > > Wow - there is a lot here - at least for me as I have been in the process > > > of processing my feelings/experiences with TM these last months - I have > > > tired also to make that point that if TM is actually as effective why do > > > so many people quit? Why do so many people who do TM long term act like > > > asses or become completely ineffective in life? Not everyone, but a lot > > > do. > > > > > > I appreciate your posting these words. > > > > > > I was re-reading part of Earl Kaplan's letter and want to know what you > > > think of this part: > > > > > > > > > "One other important point is that the mechanical repetition > > > of a mantra without meaning or devotion brings no spiritual progress > > > whatsoever. This point is referred to in the yoga sutras and in many > > > discussions of great spiritual teachers. The mechanical repetition of some > > > meaningless word brings no opening of the heart, no love in one's life, > > > and no > > > unfoldment of true spiritual values. > > > Haven't you ever > > > wondered why so many people in the TM movement seemed so heartless, > > > especially > > > the administrators the early courses? It was because their mechanical > > > repetition of a meaningless word was actually closing their heart, not > > > opening > > > it. That is why so many people in the TM movement have suffered a sort of > > > disassociation with so much of their life where they don't have the same > > > feelings they used to. It's not because they are more highly evolved, it > > > is > > > because they are disconnected from their hearts." > > > > > > What do you think about this? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: Duveyoung <no_re...@yahoogroups.com> > > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 10:15 AM > > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks > > > > > > > > > Â > > > What, Richard, what? I don't get to express an opinion? > > > > > > Of course I'm an asshole -- everyone is. > > > > > > And remember these opinions are from a brain that did 30 years of TM, > > > 44,000 hours in the chair, 2,000 taught -- how could TM be such a > > > "nothing technique" that it didn't even dent my revulsion of the > > > movement's leaders? If I was not improved, and my opinion is for shit, > > > then these leaders are leaders of a movement that is offering a technique > > > that doesn't work -- so they're frauds -- or, as I have said: ASSHOLES! > > > > > > Who doesn't think their thoughts are legit until otherwise persuaded? > > > > > > These Rajas were snobby, prideful, uncaring about the rights of others, > > > dismissive, and on and on. Not always, but often. Not to me personally, > > > so much. as it was to EVERY. ONE. THEY. KNEW. > > > > > > One of these guys was fond of snapping his fingers to get people doing > > > something -- like a Nazi SS. Which reminds me of this time I personally > > > walked over and handed a check for $500 to yet another TM minor-leader, > > > and he too perfunctorily snapped his fingers to get me to give him the > > > check and leave his office. Fuck, eh? The $500 was chicken feed to him. > > > > > > I've know six of the movement's super-rich -- hundreds of millions in net > > > worth each. All of them strutted around like feudal lords....not even > > > nice to their wives. > > > > > > It's the money -- it corrupts......corrupts everyone. Even a person > > > making $30,000 a year looks down on a homeless person in the > > > streets.....like that, the ego glues itself to symbols to make itself > > > real. BAH! > > > > > > And double BAH! on the movement for offering position, access and > > > privilege to the rich -- so that they could be milked dry by Girish et > > > alia. > > > > > > This was two decades ago -- who knows, I have gotten "better" as a human > > > in that time, so certainly they will have been smacked enough by karma to > > > sand down a lot of their rough spots. Humility can come in an instant, > > > so who knows what they've evolved into by now. The acid test is what > > > they do with their money and how they treat their minions. > > > > > > And those who are rich and fight to remain decent human beings are as if > > > funneled into their personalities by dint of the movement's impoverished > > > masses who relentlessly beg from the rich for loans, gifts, and > > > investment in gonzo business deals. And the movement is knocking on > > > their door for more cash EVERY. DAY. Shit, even I get asked for > > > donations by the TMO at least ten times a year. Simply trying to avoid > > > all that rush for their gold turns the rich into fear-everyone types, and > > > it shows when you try to approach the rich with anything but "hey, try > > > the bean casserole." They smell your beggary from 100 feet away. So, on > > > that level, I pity them, because they are always hiding out from the > > > masses, and having to have only people like them to hob nob with. > > > Vicious cycle that. > > > > > > Now-a-days, mostly I see TM as a scam. The technique probably can be > > > used to good effect, but what that is and how it compares to other > > > techniques is just not clear. I'm all for anything that lessens > > > physiological excitation, but I could rattle of a hundred ways to obtain > > > that. > > > > > > I like the idea of the Holy Tradition, but where was it ever honored? > > > Maharishi FORBID any translation of Guru Dev's words, right? Ask L.B., > > > right? The movement has never NEVER NEVER wanted us to have intellectual > > > clarity -- tried to keep us all as blind true believers and avoid any > > > discussion of the fine points or the truths about the mantras, Guru Dev's > > > money/death, and on and on -- we all know the ways the movement didn't > > > respect us or grant us any right to know about most of the movement's > > > machinations. > > > > > > Here's one symbolic moment for me: on teacher training, Maharishi had a > > > meeting that was sort of "thrown together quickly in a very small venue" > > > and it turned out that people could sit right next to Maharishi, maybe > > > only a 100 people in the room. This rich guy planks his ass down right > > > next to Maharishi, and picks up Maharishi's hand and holds it! -- instead > > > of listening he interrupted Maharishi several times to add his opinion to > > > the words of Maharishi. > > > > > > Maharishi didn't even twitch, and none of his body guards did either -- > > > they knew the master was working the guy up to get a big gift to the > > > movement, ya see? Up until the time, the only person I knew who'd ever > > > touched Maharishi was Tat Walla Baba. > > > > > > If I had planked my ass down before that rich guy, I would have been sent > > > home FOR FUCKING EVER for not knowing my place. > > > > > > And, yes, after that instance, I gave two more decades to the movement -- > > > which means I was not only an asshole, but a mindful toady asshole. > > > > > > And that's the cause of all this bitterness you see in my writings -- I > > > did this to me. 100% on me, but if anyone here wants to defend the TMO > > > as guilt-free because "everyone has their integrity and has to own their > > > own karma, so we get to maraud others with fake science, lies, lies and > > > more lies," then I'm probably going to piss all over those opinions just > > > as you, Dear Fucked-up Richard, have once again tried to piss on my > > > opinions. > > > > > > My hope for you, Richard, is that you realize some day that you think of > > > yourself as "rich" in knowledge and intellect and clarity, and you are > > > treating the rest of us at FFL as if we are far beneath your acumen -- > > > that is "we are poor." In this regard, you're as messed up as the > > > snobby Rajas. > > > > > > Good luck to you, Bub. > > > > > > Edg > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Richard J. Williams" <richard@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Duveyoung: > > > > > I know two of the Rajas -- worked for one for two years, > > > > > knew the other via pot-lucks. Both millionaires AT BIRTH > > > > > -- both assholes....mean assholes....haughty, rude > > > > > motherfucking assholes. > > > > > > > > > You're an asshole for posting this. What was it, the the > > > > money? LoL! > > > > > > > > > Did I make myself clear? I don't know about the others. > > > > > > > > > <SNIP> > > > > > > > > > >
