Thank you Carol - here's more descriptions, just for fun. Divine Mother from Hindu scriptures - an epitome of beauty, grace, intelligence, courage, independence, lover of arts - just having fun with that dude Shiva - one cool, sophisticated liberal woman celebrating life yeah?
Fantasized, self-styled Divine Mother and Guru like Amma - sado-masochist, suffering for masses, virgin, chaste, pure (read - doesn't indulge in shameful things like peeing, menstruating and shudder - sex !!!). Her abode aka ashram representing strict gender roles, conservative, life-abnegating, misogynist values. Whew - ain't no way in hell Shiva's hanging out with this uncivilized, uneducated, uncouth woman. On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 7:16 PM, Carol <[email protected]> wrote: > ** > > > Wow Ravi...you certainly have a way with words. I like your descriptions. > > ************* > > --- In [email protected], Ravi Chivukula wrote: > > > > Carol - so awesome you could see that - however these Gurus, the very > ones > > committing and teaching soul murders are the ones that are worshiped by > the > > burdened liberals - eager to numb their pain, eager to abdicate > > responsibility to these Gurus- this 2000 year old childish fascination > with > > a messiah suffering for our sins - these masochistic messiahs, adored for > > their masochistic, life-abnegating, life-numbing feats of physical > > endurance masqueraded as sacrifice and spirituality. > > > > On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 4:56 PM, Carol wrote: > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > typo: I no longer knew me...not I know longer knew me. Ha. > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "Carol" wrote: > > > > > > > > That makes sense to me...as far as turning the experience into a > > > philosophy that results in "repression,perversion and/or other life > > > abnegating practices." > > > > > > > > In my previous belief system which was Bible based, we referred to > those > > > who are 'telios' being fully mature spiritually. We were the > > > initiated...the enlightened (but not necessarily the same > enlightenment as > > > what others in Far East philosophies refer to). > > > > > > > > But, what I discovered in becoming teleioo is what I term 'soul > murder' > > > or 'soul suicide.' I know longer knew me and ended up a shell of a > person. > > > I hope to never go back to that state. (Not saying that is what the > > > Biblical word refers to, but rather it was distorted.) > > > > > > > > Something I had typed (and then deleted) in my previous comment was, > "It > > > simply is." "It" referring to enlightenment..or whatever one wants to > call > > > it. > > > > > > > > Kind of like breath...it is. Or life. Or even death. It is. > > > > > > > > ************** > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Ravi Chivukula wrote: > > > > > > > > > > This is well and good Carol. However most in spirituality make the > end > > > - such as detachment, freedom as a way of living, as philosophy > resulting > > > in repression, perversion and/or other life abnegating practices. > Hence the > > > fascination for Gandhi, Teresa, Dalai Lama, Ammachi - these pseudo > > > spiritual life abnegating, poverty worshiping icons, messiahs. So this > is > > > something to be remembered - that detachment, freedom, humility are > the end > > > product and cannot be wrapped into a belief system or a style of > living. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jan 27, 2013, at 2:44 PM, "Carol" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the responses. > > > > > > > > > > > > In reading them one word comes to mind...freedom. > > > > > > > > > > > > And then I think...Freedom from attachment. > > > > > > > > > > > > But, then I think, of emotions and the feelings of attachment. > > > Attachment isn't a bad thing; it just depends on the timing and the > type of > > > attachment. > > > > > > > > > > > > Such as children. I love my children and will always feel > attached > > > with them. But, as they have grown into adults, I've had to let go of > parts > > > of that attachment. > > > > > > > > > > > > Hmm....there is a new freedom in letting go of that attachment > with > > > my children. It is a different kind of attachment now because they > don't > > > need me like they did when they were infants and youngsters. > > > > > > > > > > > > In the past years I thought of 'enlightenment' kind of like > someone > > > being on an ego trip. But, I never really asked about it or read up on > it. > > > Apparently, I was assuming and/or reading into the term from my own > past > > > experiences. > > > > > > > > > > > > From reading the responses here, the responses don't come across > as > > > ego trips. > > > > > > > > > > > > ********* > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Ravi Chivukula wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 12:09 PM, Carol wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I find your response interesting. Ravi, I started another > thread > > > regarding > > > > > > > > enlightenment here: > > > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/333764 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Would you mind commenting on that thread? (Just to keep the > > > comments > > > > > > > > together. Hope that is an okay request here on FFL.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In your words, what is "enlightenment?" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you Carol. Here's what I came up for your question. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Enlightenment creates a state of consciousness, a context of > > > self-freedom > > > > > > > in which one is not constrained by anything outside of oneself > > > even as one > > > > > > > performs normal actions and goes through normal moods as > everyone > > > else. An > > > > > > > unperturbed inner state of mind untouched, untainted, > > > unconditioned by > > > > > > > anything. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you! > > > > > > > > ************* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "Ravi Chivukula" > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Meditation gets you there faster, no?" > > > > > > > > > No this is a wrong notion that I see being perpetuated by > > > everyone I > > > > > > > > > hear. Meditation lets you purify your body, mind and > senses so > > > the > > > > > > > > > transition is smoother, easier when the mystical energy > > > descends. When > > > > > > > > > this happens and if it indeed happens is a big question > mark > > > and has no > > > > > > > > > relation to a regular meditation practice such as in my > case. > > > Two years > > > > > > > > > down the line I seem to agree with Vaj that TM is an > unhealthy > > > > > > > > > meditation technique that can cause abnormal states of > mind - > > > better to > > > > > > > > > stick with hatha yoga, pranaayama etc. So enlightenment is > not > > > an > > > > > > > > > achievement. This is the problem I had with most on Batgap > - > > > what most > > > > > > > > > are describing there are some altered states of > consciousness > > > created by > > > > > > > > > their meditation techniques. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
