The title is the worse part of the book.  Did you read it?  The point of the 
book isn't actually his NDE.  



>________________________________
> From: curtisdeltablues <[email protected]>
>To: [email protected] 
>Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 7:35 AM
>Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Michael Shermer rebuts Eben Alexander
> 
>
>  
>Hi Emily,
>
>Hi five for bringing new material.  I grabbed it at the library as soon as its 
>catnip (for me) title had its effect.  I had to read some of the critiques to 
>understand the scientific issues with his claims.
>
>Evaluating this book is a great education in how we need to approach the flood 
>of popular books from scientists or doctors without a background in the field. 
>Scientific understanding is a collaborative process filled with outliers 
>expanding the edges of the known as well as people who are just a bit off.  It 
>taught me a lot about how complex determining death is in the short run.  In 
>the long run it becomes more obvious!
>
>Neurosurgeons are as naive as anyone else concerning the issues  with being 
>confident of our knowledge if they have not studied epistemology.  He makes a 
>few fatal errors in his assumptions.
>
>Having had the kind of experiences he recounts in the altered states produced 
>by lots of meditation, I understand the compelling nature of what the brain 
>can produce.  I suspect under the extreme conditions his was under are even 
>more compelling.
>
>His title is fascinating: Proof of Heaven: A Neurosurgeon's Journey into the 
>Afterlife.  It makes us feel as if we should take his claim more seriously 
>because of his background doesn't it?  It worked on me.  But in the end we 
>have a subjective account with no scientific way to know when exactly he had 
>these experiences as his brain powered down and up.  So we are left with 
>another account that uses the tantalizing concept of "near" death which sounds 
>more like death than "not" death in the same way that "barely" legal porn gets 
>more Internet porn hits than "legal" porn. (Or so I am told having no first 
>hand knowledge in this area.)
>
>Our minds are amazing and the collaborative effect of minds trying to get to 
>the bottom of life's deepest questions is fascinating.  I will always respond 
>to the catnip of the outliers, but wont be surprised when, after more study, 
>they don't quite deliver what they promised. I always learn from taking the 
>ride.
>
>--- In [email protected], Emily Reyn <emilymae.reyn@...> wrote:
>>
>> Read the book Xeno and then I would love to have a discussion with 
>> you.....it was written by a neuroscientist after all.  And he addresses 
>> exactly what you discuss below in the context of medical science.  
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> >________________________________
>> > From: Xenophaneros Anartaxius <anartaxius@...>
>> >To: [email protected] 
>> >Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 8:22 PM
>> >Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Michael Shermer rebuts Eben Alexander
>> > 
>> >
>> >  
>> >
>> >
>> >--- In [email protected], Emily Reyn <emilymae.reyn@> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> This is a beautiful picture.  Can you believe I just finished this 
>> >> book?  Eben Alexander refutes all this in the later Chapters of this 
>> >> book - he addresses this supposition of hallucination specifically by 
>> >> making the very real point that his neocortex was not functioning, 
>> >> amongst other things.  
>> >> 
>> >How would he, in that state, know whether he even had a neocortex? Someone 
>> >had to feed him this information. Neurologists point out that even in 
>> >states where the patient seems to be in cardiac arrest, there is some 
>> >slight activity that keeps a small amount of blood flow to the brain. In 
>> >these emergency situations, there is no electroencephalographic monitoring 
>> >of the brain, though that might be introduced as additional controls 
>> >someday. No one has figured out just when a patient has the NDE in these 
>> >situations as they cannot point out they are having an experience, so 
>> >currently there are a lot of unknowns about these experiences. Those that 
>> >believe in NDEs assume the brain is not functioning, but this is unknown 
>> >except in the case where the patient does not revive, and then of course 
>> >they do not report an NDE. These kinds of experiences often occur under 
>> >very specific circumstances where a patient or a subject is not in a life 
>> >threatening situation
 such
>>  as cardiac arrest, which is why scientists very substantially question 
>> whether they have any 'supernatural' component at all.
>> >> 
>> >> >________________________________
>> >> > From: Yifu <yifuxero@>
>> >> >To: [email protected] 
>> >> >Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 7:04 PM
>> >> >Subject: [FairfieldLife] Michael Shermer rebuts Eben Alexander
>> >> > 
>> >> >
>> >> >  
>> >> >"Allegory of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ" by Pat Devonas:
>> >> >http://www.museumsyndicate.com/images/2/10741.jpg
>> >> >
>> >> >Dr. Michael Shermer attempts to rebut Dr. Eben Alexander's NDE as being 
>> >> >genuinely "out of body" and supernatural. (Alexander is a neurosurgeon 
>> >> >who had an NDE. Claims he traveled out of the body into supernatural 
>> >> >dimensions in which he met deceased relatives, and listened to the OM.)
>> >> >...
>> >> >Shermer in Scientific American, Apr 2013, 86, essentially uses a 
>> >> >"similarity" argument coupled with Occam's Razor. Shermer states: 
>> >> >"Migraine headaches also produce halluncinations, which Sacks 
>> >> >[neurologist Oliver Sacks] himself has experienced as a longtime 
>> >> >sufferer, including a 'shimmering light' that was 'dazzlingly bring'" 
>> >> >etc, etc, clouds, blah, blah. 
>> >> >Then Shermer goes on to make the comparison:  "Compare Sack's experience 
>> >> >with that of Alexander's trip to heaven, where he was "in a place of 
>> >> >clouds. Big, puffy, pink-white ones that showed up sharply against the 
>> >> >deep blue-black sky.  Higher than the clouds - immeasurably higher - 
>> >> >flocks of transparent, shimmering beings arced across the sky, leaving 
>> >> >long, streamerlike lines behind them.".
>> >> >...
>> >> >Then Shermer says "In any case, there is a reason they are called 
>> >> >'near'-death experiences: the people who have then are not actually 
>> >> >dead". Also he inquires how Alexander could have a memory of the 
>> >> >experiences.
>> >> >.
>> >> >Finally, Dr. Shermer states "To me, this evidence is proof of 
>> >> >hallucination, not heaven."
>> >> >.
>> >> >[his arguments on the whole are similar to those of Sam Harris].
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > 
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > 
>> >
>> >
>>
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