--- In [email protected], Ravi Chivukula <chivukula.ravi@...> wrote: > > Dear salyavin, > > Let me clarify my points because you seem to have missed it completely. > > I don't offer any predictions - I have never have. I stated that clearly - > astrology doesn't legislate reality, cannot provide any clues into reality. > I have read the bible of Jyotish - Brihat Parasara Hora Shastra and it > doesn't talk about any predictions.
You may not offer predictions Ravi but the rest of the astrology world does. Take John's pronouncement on whoever it was who died of Aids. If it was due to the position of planets as claimed then it would be predictable as other people will have the same arrangement in their charts. It should be quite simple to predict from that but it never seems to happen. I think that's because it's rubbish. I just can't see a signal above the noise. All John's predictions are post hoc. But post hoc ergo propter hoc, so even if you don't do predictions you *should* be able to if you are using a system of planetary positions as a guide. That's if the theory is sound. I don't think it is sound and ask for evidence. Not an unreasonable thing to do methinks. > > I have compared it to Psychology, a soft science - offering an ability to > provide insights into the individual and use it as a tool for > self-knowledge, self-freedom. > > Of course I have seen psychology used by people to limit themselves, > constraint themselves - psychology being tainted by the subjectivity of > practitioner. > > So then there's no evidence as in physical sciences, the evidence is from > the individual who benefits. What evidence can I give of heart and love? > The neurotransmitters supposedly fire causing heart to beat faster. I > didn't necessarily feel my heart beating faster but my love was real - my > pain, suffering too. But I can't provide any evidence. Neither have I any > emotional investment in providing you any evidence. > > You don't even believe in consciousness Huh? but you definitely have lot of > emotional investment in arguing against all these. Why bother - if you > believe in the reductionist physicalism? Why bother? It's fun and this is a discussion board for this sort of thing. Check the homepage: What we need is the will to find out. I never was interested in beliefs. When I joined the TMO I did so believing the horseshit they put out claiming they were a party of science. I was quite happy to point out where they went wrong on that front but it turned out they weren't particularly interested in science after all. Their aim is to recreate what they see as a perfect society from what they see as mankind's most perfect teachings. Which would have been fine if it all stood up to scrutiny. All I wanted from the TMO was intellectual justification for their world view but I didn't get it and was in fact told to keep quiet about what I thought. So I quit and good riddance. As Marshy said; Any teacher that can't answer tough questions doesn't deserve to be your teacher. That'll be irony then. I take part in FFL because it's fun and I want to keep in touch with what the crazy TMO is up to. I doubt anyone gives a shit about what I think about astrology but the arguing throws up some good ideas and helps me concentrate on a scientific worldview, the more I have to explain why I think something is wrong, the more I understand my position as well as everybody elses. > > You are right on one thing - it was *me*. You are contradicting your > reductionist physicalism here. I'm not contradicting anything about myself Ravi but I always knew the horoscope reading was down to the intuition of the reader rather than anything to do with planets. But a lot of people still use planets as a guide and the TMO will take a lot of money off you by claiming they can predict bad times ahead by looking at your chart. This is the dangerous idea that I want to fight. Part of my anger comes from friends being charged many thousands for astrology based bullshit yagyas. It staggers me that the TMO can keep a straight face with the "We're all PHD's" bullshit and still peddle this stuff. So if astrology, as in "guided by the stars", is real, as in measurable and predictable, I want someone to demonstrate it. All I've had so far is reasons why it isn't anything to do with planets after all even though it's planetary positions that are the key to the whole thing! It's all most peculiar. > I never thought anyone could legislate reality even if I spent 16 years in > Amma's cult. This is my argument against her. I never got any astrology > reading, I never spent a dime on any readings, yagyas, gems, mantras, > meditation. I never thought anyone was infallible, omniscient or had some > special insight into reality. My approach has been the same towards all > these. I was concerned about myself - my awareness, my growth, my potential. Good for you. Perhaps we are more alike than you think.
