> > > Andy then went on to leave the movement and serve > > > the pedophile king, and then return back to the > > > states five years later to rape teenage boys. Of > > > course, this was standard for the movement. > > > > > ... after becoming a teacher, when I saw authoritarianism, > > and bureaucrats abusing their roles, and miscreants of > > every sort being pandered and pedestaled, my romanticism > > about the movement pretty much got its bucket of cold > > water in the face. > > turquoiseb: > Thanks for taking the time to rap out your feelings about > all this, Edg, and for finding a way to do so that wasn't > all full of "affront" and "attack dog mentality" like so > many who commented on Rick's repost of this article. > Did either of you two report any of these cases cited by Edg of 'pedophile' or 'pedestaled' to the authorities?
If not, why not? Go figure. How many of the pundit boys did Edg see Andy rape? Thanks to both of you for being so honest in finally reporting this to the discussion group. So, why is it that I'm hearing about this now instead of ten years ago when I first subscribed to this list? Somebody is either lying or covering up the truth. > Thanks > also for dealing with what it said, as opposed to just playing > "shoot the messenger" and trying to attack its author while > avoiding any of the issues raised in the original post, which > is what some here who pretend to be "honest" did. > > I agreed with the author because these are *universal* mind- > viruses that *do* seem to appear in *every* spiritual trip, no > matter how much they may try to prevent them. Because they > *do* appear in almost all spiritual trips, I have to agree with > the author that these traps are "spiritually transmitted" -- > they just "come with the territory." > > Going all reactive when these trends are pointed out, and > jumping into "Gotta defend TM" mode is just downright > *embarrassing*. It's pretty much the ultimate in cult-think. > As is trying to "shoot the messenger" rather than deal with > the issues themselves. The fact that a few people did *exactly* > that demonstrates (at least to me) how deeply some of these > issues have become ingrained in the people who reacted that > way. They literally lose their ability to be rational human > beings when someone proposes a criticism of spiritual practice > in general that they perceive (being stuck in small-mindedness) > as an "attack on TM." > > I'm *not* saying that we didn't have some good times in the > TMO, or that it was All Bad, All The Time. But it *did* cultivate > 'tudes like these, and to some extent still does. I honestly > believe that a few of the "shoot the messenger" types here > reacted as they did BECAUSE they'd had one or more of their > *own* traits pointed out clearly and concisely, and couldn't > "take the heat." So they did what they always do, and pointed > an angry finger at the person standing next to the thermostat > turning the dial up. > > I *like* "step back and take a new look at things we mainly > take for granted about the spiritual process" articles like this. > I *like* Rick's reaction to it, finding it "right on" after -- and > this cannot being ignored -- personally interviewing dozens > if not hundreds of people in the spiritual teacher/guru biz > now. When you do that, you become aware of *trends*, and > this article is about *trends*. > > The SAME trends tend to show up in ALL spiritual trips, > as far as I can tell. Maybe they're built in to the human > operating system, and just tend to come out when humans > clump together in groups...I dunno. But to pretend that > these insights and generalizations are *not* accurate, or > *not* accurate about the running joke that is "the TM > movement" strikes me as head-in-the-sand-ism of the > highest degree. > > As I said before, the value of pinpointing negative trends > like these is that identifying the viruses gives one a chance > to try to stop them before they become full-blown diseases. > I've encountered a few organizations that tried with all > their might *to* prevent many of these trends from becom- > ing established. And many of them tried and failed. As an > example, I once saw a lady named Gangaji give an entire > one-hour talk about how she doesn't "do" anything up on > stage to create or facilitate awakening experiences in her > students, going over and over and over the "non-doing" > and "non-intent" on her part dozens of times, as if to > drive the point home for her students and make sure > they heard and understood it. Then I listened to the > conversations among her long-term students in the > courtyard of the building after she'd left, and almost *all* > of them were saying things like "Wasn't the darshan hot > tonight?" And "Yeah, she was really pushing out the > energy and transforming all of us, wasn't she?" Go figure. > They brought their own preconceptions and beliefs to > a talk, got told that those preconceptions and beliefs > were crap and had nothing whatsoever to do with what > the teacher's role or abilities were, and left with the > same preconceptions and beliefs they arrived with. > > Anyway, to sum up, Yes, I think that the TMO is a good > example of *all* of the ten traits this woman pinpointed. > But then I think that about almost all other spiritual > trips I've had the opportunity to witness or participate in. > These are traps that *egos* fall into, and as long as there > *are* egos, they're going to fall into them. To deny that, > and to get all defensive, is to perpetuate and strengthen > those egos. >
