Hi Paula,
Pleasant is always good, if not the best. My response, though
"serious" in content, had a jocular intent.
There is a cetain "joke" underlying the question and answer. In a
similar vein to Judy's statement "I just don't want to be overshadowed
anymore".
As you may know from my posts, I am not a big fan of labels such as
"Enlightenment". First, many here and elsewhere have so many
understandings of the term, use of such a label, in contrast to direct
descriptors of an experience, has little communicative value IMO.
Second, I don't feel there is an endpoint (for our purposes) to
refinement and "expansion" - and to me, "E", connates some endpoint.
Worse yet, "E" conveys a goal. Something to strive for. Yet the state
itself, common even among multiple definitions, is a "striveless
state" -- something to which nothing can be added, and nothing can be
taken away. Thus, striving for a "striveless" state, is a paradox, and
is quite funny. If "obtaining 'E'" adds something, by definition (and
eperience) its not 'E'.
And a characteristic of what many people refer to as "E" is the
awareness of non-localized, undifferented (from others) sense of
"identity" (or identitylessness)."I" strives. "IT" is not striving.
Thus, the concept or motion of "striving for E" is also funny on a
second level, beyond that of the preceeding paragraph. In "E" there is
no "I" to strive.
So the thought "I strive for Enlightenment" is an unsurpassed,
multi-level, "recursive into itself", Escher-type joke: there is no
"I" that can strive to and achieve the striveless state.
Similar to the statement (high level joke to me) "I just don't want to
be overshadowed anymore". The striver ("I") is not that which is NOT
overshadowed. Thats a convoluted double negative sentence, I know, but
no more convoluted than the paradox of the original quote. And the
striving "to not be overshadowed" is the same "striving for a
'striveless state'" as above.
I am not pegging you as having this or that type of experience or
understanding of it. I am not offering advice. Just offering a "joke".
Laughing is its own reward. A result of holding a paradox in the mind
(like "where does space begin?") or the fusion of disparate ideas or
concepts. A Gap opener. And that has its own reward and insights.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paula Youmans" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Yikes, not at all.
>
> And if I did, asking would hardly help me (as I was stating).
>
> I ask because people speak of enlightenment as if they know what it
is and
> have never been able ttent. find out.
>
> So to answer your questions
>
> 1. I want to know
> 2. you couldn't pay me to take such a label
> 3. I guess
> 4. not to me, but I've never claimed to be smart. I'm more of the
> pleasant type
>
>
>
> Do you know?
>
_____
>
> Peter
> > I told Tom he was enlightened and he told me that I
> > was enlightened, so there.
>
> Paula
> > Seriously.how does anyone ever know???
>
>
> Who wants to know? Do you feel you would be enhanced with such a
> christening or label? If so, isn't that telling? Doesn't that in
> itself convey the answer?
>
>
>
>
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